Perhaps Hol Wagner could shed some light on this subject....
It is interesting that the first individual Budd coaches went to the C&S and
FW&D rather than the parent CB&Q... and that the Texas Zephyr got Budd built
cars at all when no other non-articulated trains were built prewar other
than the General Pershing/Silver Streak Zephyrs....
The pending lawsuit with Pullman over the DZ sleepers no doubt influenced
the decision to remodel the heavyweights to blend with the Budd cars....the
same thing happened with the CB&Q's Zephyr Tower and the RI's Rocket Tower
for the Zephyr Rocket. The first CB&Q Budd Pullmans were the California
Zephyr cars, so there might be more to the issue than the Pullman
lawsuit....in fact, when you think of it, Budd Pullmans on the Q were
limited to the original CZ, the 1952 cars for the CZ, ARZ, and KCZ, and the
1956 Denver Zephyr.... not many trains required Pullmans on the Q!!!
Charlie Vlk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Levine" <sjl@prodigy.net>
To: <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:49 PM
Subject: [CBQ] Re: A Plethora of Pullmans
> Bill
>
> I would urge you to research and address the reasons behind the use
> of heavyweight Pullmans on the original Texas Zephyr.
>
> I have always been puzzled about this as the trains, being Zephyrs,
> should have had streamlined Budd Sleepers like the 1936 DZ.
>
> What I suspect the reason for the sleepers being heavyweight was that
> the Pullman company basically nixed the use of non-pullman
> equipment. There is beautiful treatment of this issue in Geoffrey
> Doughty's excellent book on the early Zephyrs where the topic merits
> a whole chapter. Basically, after the Denver Zephyr and first Super
> Chief went with Budd sleepers, all lettered Pullman, the Pullman
> company started to threaten railroads that were contemplating using
> non-Pullman-manufactured sleepers with renegotiation of contracts
> because of issues pertaining to the "safety" of these cars, and
> perhaps even withdrawal of Pullman service altogether from railroads
> using non-pullman-manufactured sleeping cars.
>
> I am curious as to whether the C&S and FW&D considered getting
> streamlined, stainless steel sleepers from Pullman. I am also
> curious as to whether, if this consideration had been made, Pullman
> outright denied these cars to the two railroads, or, more likely,
> made their lease/purchase prohibitively expensive, perhaps in
> retaliation for the Q going Budd on the DZ sleeping cars.
>
> sjl
>
>
> --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, "wrjensen" <wrjensen@e...> wrote:
> > The FW&D and C&S Pullman are something that interests me. There is
> > not a lot of information out there about them Which I have found
> so
> > far. Hoping some day to do an article on them.
> >
> > But here are a few Photos to look at In Hol Wagner "Colorado Road"
> > on page 337 there are a photos the Spanish Crest (12-1) and the
> > Lariat Crest.(10-1-1). The Spanish Crest his "Burlington" Label
> on
> > it and the Lariat Crest has the "Pullman" Label both are in the
> > Lettering to match the Budd cars. (Zephyr Font) I am looking for
> > photos for all the cars the figure out how each were lettered.
> > Also in Steve Goen's "Fort Worth and Denver Color Pictorial"
> on
> > page 20 there is a photo of the end of the Texas Zephyr with 3 of
> the
> > Pullman cars on it. I not sure which cars the are but by the
> windows
> > it looks to be a 12-1, 8-5, and maybe a 10-1-1. The last Car is a
> 10-
> > 1-1 says Pullman, and I can not read the other 2.
> > Most of the FW&D and C&S Pullman cars were "modernized and
> repainted
> > to silver" but what I have found the Lariat Range, Spanish Range,
> > Castle Crest, Lariat Range, Spanish Crest and maybe the Castle
> Range
> > were Updated for the Texas Zephyr in 1940. and used on the TZ
> until
> > 1957 when the DZ train set were bought. Not sure where the car ran
> > form 1957 to 1965. The other cars look to be updated in the early
> > 50's not sure about paint at this time. Three of the cars that I
> > know the least about are the 12-1 Maximiliam, Anaconda, and the
> > Wadena. I have not found photos of them on a FW&D or C&S train,
> but
> > photos of old sleeper cars seem to be rare. Everyone was taking
> > photos of the E9 and Budd cars. I guess the cares were just as
> part
> > of the Pullman Pool out of Denver or even Fort Worth/Dallas. It
> just
> > something more for me to look up
> >
> > Not sure how branchline will do the cars but I am waiting to see
> > them.
> >
> > >4) Given my mainly pre-1948 focus, should I even bother
> > >getting "Burlington
> > >cars," or should I instead go for the UnDecs or plain Pullman
> > >lettering,
> > >and then complete the lettering/naming myself? Are appropriate
> decals
> > >available?
> >
> > 5 cars were painted silver in 1940 but were seem to say on the TZ
> > and other FW&D/C&S trains. Depend on where you are modeling
> depends
> > or it they work for you.
> >
> >
> > Will Jensen
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
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