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Cars with toilets have a half-length window at the southwest
corner where the toilet is on the lower level. They have a
matching window on the upper level. I assumed when I was a kid
(and have never changed my assumption) that the upper level space
contained a tank of water for flushing the toilet.
When you say the lockers were across from and above the toilet,
do you mean the northwest corner? I don't remember ever seeing a
Q-design car that didn't have a normal full-length window there.
I currently drive the Eola yard van at least twice a week, so I
spend a lot of time sitting behind the office watching dinkies go
by (freight traffic tends to wind down by the time Suburban 1200
departs Aurora at 4:00 AM). I always cringe at the plated-over cab
windows. And I am sure that of the cars in the 700-820 series that
are still in service, none has a short window in the northwest
corner.
--
David Streeter
On 10/11/2022 5:38 AM, Leo Phillipp via
groups.io wrote:
Going strictly from memory without aid of drawings
or photos just plain experience on the cars……
Those cars with lockers seemed to among the oldest
cars. The locker was simply a closet at the upper end of the car
across from and above the toilet. The locker took up the space
where an end double seat was located in the cars without a
locker.
My memory is the cars with lockers lacked a window
at this location while those with the double seat had a small
window at that location that stood out because of its small
size. To my knowledge the locker/closest remained in the cars
until the end of their service. Some trainman would still use
them to put their stuff behind a locked door but then had to
retrieve it at the end of that run as they might not see that
car again that day. It was a good place to stash any items
purchased while in the city on layover. The closest/lockers also
became a space for the cleaning folks to occasionally leave a
mop or broom.
The space under the stairs contained the electrical
lockers on side of the vestibule and baggage space on the other.
If you have a copy of my two part article on
working the Dinkies in Friends of the BN Expeditor you can
re-read the story of how one enterprising trainman nicknamed
“peanuts” used a locker to earn extra cash income on his morning
inbound and evening outbound trip.
Again my memory is every control car had a toilet
as did the car next to the locomotive. In between there was an
occasional car w/toilet.
Leo Phillipp
Digging
through my records, I have found a note on a post-1974
floor plan that 700-787 were rebuilt in 1973, and that
725-731, 740-744 and 750-787 were equipped with toilets.
(I presume that was original equipment rather than added
at the rebuilding.) It would appear that toilets and
trainmen’s lockers coincided.
The diagram does not list the 790-795 cab cars but does
list 816-820 with toilets. Were these the cab cars
renumbered?
Did any of the 1965 gallery cars have trainmen’s lockers
and did the cab cars have toilets? Were the lockers
positioned under the stairs?
Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
From: Rupert Gamlen
Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2022 9:51 am
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: RE: [CBQ] types of gallery cars
According
to the 1969 Ownership, Age & Condition Equipment
List
700-729
built 1950
730-739 built 1953
740-749 built 1955
750-759 built 1957
760-787 built 1965
790-795 built 1965
96 seats lower level, 52 seats in the gallery, while
toilet cars seated 94 and 51 respectively.
From the January 1965 List (before the 1965 equipment
was listed), 725-731, 740-744 and 750-758 have an upper
deck locker for trainmen, and 722-724, 733-736, 739,
745, 748-749 and 759 were “equipped with 27 conductor
control wiring for push-pull service in 1964.”
Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ
Groups 4 and 5 arrived after the
merger. Group 4 was ordered by the Q, but delivered after
the merger. WSMTD/BNSF still has 741-751, 753-780 and
782-787.
Superior, WI
The apparent confusion at
Rapido got me to thinking...
From my personal observations,
there are five types of Burlington
1: name board, no toilet, no
cab, starting with 700.
2: name board, toilet, no cab,
ending with 787. (I have never seen a 788
3: name board, toilet, cab,
790-795. (no photo found on rrpicturearchives)
4: no name board, toilet, cab,
796-815.
5: no name board, toilet, no
cab, 816-820.
I believe types 1 and 2 were
ordered in alternating lots, but I don't
have ready access to my notes
detailing which numbers are which types.
I believe Metra has purged all
of type 1.
Metra has removed the cabs from
all type 3 and 4 cars, plating over the
In my mind, types 4 and 5 are
"BN cars," but I don't know when they were
actually ordered. I assume they
were bought by WSMTD rather than the
All cars with toilets are
oriented with the toilet in the southwest
corner. This was the biggest
flaw with the Holgate & Reynolds and Kiel
(Keil?) Line models: they had
the toilet in the wrong place so it would
In all groups, underbody
details changed over time, first with 480V HEP
replacing the propane air
conditioners, and I think the HEP connectors
were modified when the E9s were
retired. And of course the big BN logo
boards were added below the
windows, etc.
After type 5 come the various
orders of "RTA cars" which look different
and have 4-digit numbers.
Do I have all of this right?
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