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[CBQ] Re: The anatomy of a hotbox...was water cooled bearings

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Subject: [CBQ] Re: The anatomy of a hotbox...was water cooled bearings
From: "robertjensen4960" <robertjensen4960@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 02:49:31 -0000
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Thank you for your very interesting narrative on journal boxes. This type of 
story is what makes the railroad come alive.  I wish I had asked my father more 
questions when he was still alive. He was a machinist in the Denver "New" Shops 
for 30 years until they closed in 1955. (See Burlington Bulletin No. 5)  Thanks 
again.  
Bob Jensen

--- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, Jpslhedgpeth@... wrote:
>
> 
> With all of the recent chatter about bearings water cooling etc we need to 
> have  "the rest of the story"...
> 
> Being probably the only guy on this list who did his railroading in the days 
> of the 5 man crew...waycar...mixed trains...white and green classification 
> lights...oil burning lanterns and markers...fusees...torpedoes...red 
> flags..NO RADIOS...train orders....employee timetables...telegraph...men with 
> seniority dating back almost to the beginning of the 20th century...universal 
> smoking....and, best of all...the FRICTION BEARING....whose trademark claim 
> to fame was the HOTBOX  I felt it was my sworn duty to declame on the HOTBOX.
> 
> To understand the hotbox you have to understand the anatomy of a freight 
> car....I'm not a mechanical expert, but I'll try to get the basics out here.
> 
> The weight of the car is distributed to the axles and thus the wheels through 
> a cross bolster on each end of the car.  The bolster has a center casting 
> which has a center ring extending down a few inches (the male portion) which 
> fits.into a (female) depression on the truck bolster.  The truck bolster 
> extends to each side of the truck and attaches to the "truck side" which has 
> castings on each end which extend outward. these outward extensions perform 
> the function of transmitting the weight of the car to the axles  (journals).  
> On a two axle truck there are 4 extensions  (1 one for each axle on each 
> side.  
> 
> The weight of the car is transmitted through these extensions...on the end of 
> which is the journal box...through the means of a "wedge" which fits against 
> the roof of the journal box (underside) then a "brass ..a device extending 
> from the back of the journal box nearly to the outer end..where the "collar" 
> on the axle is...fittted between the wedge and the axle...The brass is made 
> of....are you ready for it....brass.   The top of the brass is nearly flat to 
> fit against the top of the journal box, but has a bit of rounded top so it 
> kind of self adjusts.  The bottom of the brass is curved to match the 
> diameter of the axle and between the bottom of the actual brass and the axle 
> is a material known as "babbit"..This is a soft lead like material which 
> serves as a "cushion" between the axle and the actual brass.  It is somewhat 
> soft and melts at a relativly low temperature.   This takes care of the 
> actual metallic structure of the freight car bearing system.
> 
> For lubrication the bottom of the journal box is filled with a material known 
> by rairoaders as "dope"..It's "waste"..saturated with journal oil.  Waste is 
> a material composed of billions of cotton strings of yarn like material..It 
> was the railroaders all purpose material and its story will be put off for 
> another time.  The waste is packed in the bottom of the journal box tightly 
> under the axle and shoved hard against the back of the box to prevent the oil 
> from running out the back..The journal (axle) rolls in this oil soaked waste 
> and carries the oil upward as it rotates thus provided the lubrication 
> between the axle and the babbited undersurface of the brass.  
> 
> As long as there is sufficient oil in the box and the waste stays tight 
> against the  axle all is well...It's when lubrication fails for one reason or 
> another there occurs the HOTBOX...Friction increases to the point where the 
> temperature of the journal box rises to the ignition point of the oil and 
> VOILA...the hotbox occurs.
> 
> A hotbox can be caused be several factors...an overloaded car....a "waste 
> grab"..ie some of the threads of the waste get pulled up across the face of 
> the journal thus stopping the lubrication.....a cut journal...the axle become 
> scored and thus has a rough surface...In cold weather the waste can actually 
> freeze and thus pull away from the journal stopping the lubrication...a rough 
> coupling can actually cause the brass to jump out of alighment and thus the 
> sufaces don't fit together properly.
> 
> What are the symptoms of a hotbox and how it is "fixed"...Anyone who has ever 
>  dealt with hotboxes  will never forget the unforgettable smell of a 
> hotbox...It's quite pungent and once it gets into your clothes it's nigh onto 
> impossible to get out.  At night you see the flame...In thedaytime you watch 
> for smoke...but lots of times you can "smell it before you see it"...
> 
> What happens if you don't stop and fix or set out the offending 
> "spindle"..Well the ultimate catastrope is a burned off journal and the 
> resulting wreck...
> 
> Hot do you deal with a hot box....The first thing you do is get out there 
> with a bucket of water...a bucket of waste...some "rod dope"...your packing 
> hook...packing iron and maybe a journal jack...
> 
> First thing is you take the packing hook and open the journal box..If it 
> hasn't flamed yet it probably will when you open the door...stand back...You 
> throw some water in to put out the fire...Then you pull out the old packing 
> with your packing hook.  Then you run the packing hook hook across the 
> journal to see if it's scored...if not...you can probably repack the box take 
> the car with you...at least to a place it can be set out.
> 
> To repack the box  you pull out all the old packing and use the packing your 
> brought with you...The extra packing and the bucket and tools were all 
> carried int he waycar..  The packing of a box was an art and the old heads 
> knew how to do it..After you got the box repacked you shoved in some "rod 
> dope"..Rod dope was some kind of "hard oil" that when wet would form an 
> emulsion with water and make an oily greasy solution.  This stuff came in 
> rolls...about like a candle which you would use on your dining room 
> table..You shoved several of these in the box and threw in lots of 
> water..That's where the water came in..The water, but itself wasn't much good 
> for anything but putting the fire out..It was the emulsion formed with the 
> rod dope and the water that created the improved lubriction and 
> thus...provided a "runnable" car to move with your train.
> 
> Sometimes if the journal was badly scored and it looked like it would 
> run...especially if the car was "hot"..ie  fresh meat..produce etc.  You 
> would have to rebrass the car..This could be done ont he road by use of the 
> journal jack carried in the waycar..You hoped you were over a tie to se the 
> jack on..placed it under the journal box and you could acutally jack up the 
> journal...thus taking the weight off that journal by raising it it..You then 
> took your packinghook and pullled out the wedge  (on top of the brass) and 
> the brass and put in the new brass you had brought up from the waycar.  You 
> oiled up the babbit side...shoved the new brass and wedge in and let the jack 
> back down and you were ready to go...
> 
> If thejournal was cut the rebrasing wouldn'tl last long and you would have to 
> set the car out and the nearest rip track would send out a couple of carmen 
> with a new set of wheels and they would rewheel the car at some remote siding.
> 
> Wel that's probably more than most of you wanted ot know...but we were 
> getting bits and pieces of the story regarding water..bearings etc...I wanted 
> you to see how it all fit together....
> 
> My brakeman's experience was amplified by a two months stint on the Coucil 
> Bluffs rip track on the RI in 1959...I was the "repack man"...that means I 
> "dabbled in oil"...Journal boxes were repacked on a time basis...IIRC it was 
> 18 months.  When a car came ont he RIP..the lead man would chalk up the work 
> to be done on the car..When it said "repack"..I would appear with my 
> wheelbarow of dope...packing hook ..iron and oil...I hated that job, but it 
> was good experience.
> 
> I'll take questions if this diatribe has raised any.
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: broken bolster <therrboomer@...>
> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tue, Apr 9, 2013 12:54 pm
> Subject: [CBQ] Re: Water Cooled Journal Box Bearings
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Trainmen sometimes put water on a journal to knock down flames
> to prevent wood car floors from being ignited, particularly a
> lumber load. 
> 
> After all a hot journal is most often due to lack of oil. 
> Any water added will further dilute the remaining lubrication
> causing an a repack situation to more likely become a change 
> out. On the other hand, in the field you do what gets the
> car to the nearest set out location. I started too late to get
> very much plain bearing hot box experience.
> 
> Dick Haave
> *********************** 
> 
> --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, "qmp211" <milepost206@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Even with the premise surrounding the employee's duty to protect company 
> > property, I am not convinced water cooling for hot journal boxes was a 
> > standard practice. 
> > 
> > And since the history of the engine found at the link appears to be written 
> > by someone other than Baldwin, I would like to hear more about these water 
> > lines. Limping an engine to a terminal is a lot different investment/safety 
> > consideration than the conventional hotbox. 
> > 
> > Any other photos of this arrangement on other engines would be helpful 
> > along with any Baldwin info on theory and practice.
> > 
> > As for the long tender deck, many builder photos were hand retouched from 
> > other images. I would suggest that this builder card MIGHT have reflected a 
> > long deck as delivered. 
> > 
> > But I tend to believe this was a possible revision in process for a longer 
> > tender and then redrawn to the as-built length or just a mistake. The 
> > builders and railroads bounced around many ideas for changes in the 
> > builder's card format. 
> > 
> > Anyway, that's my 2¢.
> > 
> > Randy
> >
>




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