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Bob and others...Thanks for your kind comments re...Anatomy....There are a few benefits from "being around awhile"
Things keep coming up which remind me of other things...and there it goes....My wife used to say..."EVERYTHING REMINDS YOU OF SOMETHING"....I say..."Wel, that's an indicaton of an active and fertile mind which as NOT YET become senile.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: robertjensen4960 <robertjensen4960@yahoo.com> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2013 8:38 am Subject: [CBQ] Re: The anatomy of a hotbox...was water cooled bearings Thank you for your very interesting narrative on journal boxes. This type of story is what makes the railroad come alive. I wish I had asked my father more questions when he was still alive. He was a machinist in the Denver "New" Shops for 30 years until they closed in 1955. (See Burlington Bulletin No. 5) Thanks again.
Bob Jensen --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, Jpslhedgpeth@... wrote: > > > With all of the recent chatter about bearings water cooling etc we need to have "the rest of the story"... > > Being probably the only guy on this list who did his railroading in the days of the 5 man crew...waycar...mixed trains...white and green classification lights...oil burning lanterns and markers...fusees...torpedoes...red flags..NO RADIOS...train orders....employee timetables...telegraph...men with seniority dating back almost to the beginning of the 20th century...universal smoking....and, best of all...the FRICTION BEARING....whose trademark claim to fame was the HOTBOX I felt it was my sworn duty to declame on the HOTBOX. > > To understand the hotbox you have to understand the anatomy of a freight car....I'm not a mechanical expert, but I'll try to get the basics out here. > > The weight of the car is distributed to the axles and thus the wheels through a cross bolster on each end of the car. The bolster has a center casting which has a center ring extending down a few inches (the male portion) which fits.into a (female) depression on the truck bolster. The truck bolster extends to each side of the truck and attaches to the "truck side" which has castings on each end which extend outward. these outward extensions perform the function of transmitting the weight of the car to the axles (journals). On a two axle truck there are 4 extensions (1 one for each axle on each side. > > The weight of the car is transmitted through these extensions...on the end of which is the journal box...through the means of a "wedge" which fits against the roof of the journal box (underside) then a "brass ..a device extending from the back of the journal box nearly to the outer end..where the "collar" on the axle is...fittted between the wedge and the axle...The brass is made of....are you ready for it....brass. The top of the brass is nearly flat to fit against the top of the journal box, but has a bit of rounded top so it kind of self adjusts. The bottom of the brass is curved to match the diameter of the axle and between the bottom of the actual brass and the axle is a material known as "babbit"..This is a soft lead like material which serves as a "cushion" between the axle and the actual brass. It is somewhat soft and melts at a relativly low temperature. This takes care of the actual metallic structure of the freight car bearing system. > > For lubrication the bottom of the journal box is filled with a material known by rairoaders as "dope"..It's "waste"..saturated with journal oil. Waste is a material composed of billions of cotton strings of yarn like material..It was the railroaders all purpose material and its story will be put off for another time. The waste is packed in the bottom of the journal box tightly under the axle and shoved hard against the back of the box to prevent the oil from running out the back..The journal (axle) rolls in this oil soaked waste and carries the oil upward as it rotates thus provided the lubrication between the axle and the babbited undersurface of the brass. > > As long as there is sufficient oil in the box and the waste stays tight against the axle all is well...It's when lubrication fails for one reason or another there occurs the HOTBOX...Friction increases to the point where the temperature of the journal box rises to the ignition point of the oil and VOILA...the hotbox occurs. > > A hotbox can be caused be several factors...an overloaded car....a "waste grab"..ie some of the threads of the waste get pulled up across the face of the journal thus stopping the lubrication.....a cut journal...the axle become scored and thus has a rough surface...In cold weather the waste can actually freeze and thus pull away from the journal stopping the lubrication...a rough coupling can actually cause the brass to jump out of alighment and thus the sufaces don't fit together properly. > > What are the symptoms of a hotbox and how it is "fixed"...Anyone who has ever dealt with hotboxes will never forget the unforgettable smell of a hotbox...It's quite pungent and once it gets into your clothes it's nigh onto impossible to get out. At night you see the flame...In thedaytime you watch for smoke...but lots of times you can "smell it before you see it"... > > What happens if you don't stop and fix or set out the offending "spindle"..Well the ultimate catastrope is a burned off journal and the resulting wreck... > > Hot do you deal with a hot box....The first thing you do is get out there with a bucket of water...a bucket of waste...some "rod dope"...your packing hook...packing iron and maybe a journal jack... > > First thing is you take the packing hook and open the journal box..If it hasn't flamed yet it probably will when you open the door...stand back...You throw some water in to put out the fire...Then you pull out the old packing with your packing hook. Then you run the packing hook hook across the journal to see if it's scored...if not...you can probably repack the box take the car with you...at least to a place it can be set out. > > To repack the box you pull out all the old packing and use the packing your brought with you...The extra packing and the bucket and tools were all carried int he waycar.. The packing of a box was an art and the old heads knew how to do it..After you got the box repacked you shoved in some "rod dope"..Rod dope was some kind of "hard oil" that when wet would form an emulsion with water and make an oily greasy solution. This stuff came in rolls...about like a candle which you would use on your dining room table..You shoved several of these in the box and threw in lots of water..That's where the water came in..The water, but itself wasn't much good for anything but putting the fire out..It was the emulsion formed with the rod dope and the water that created the improved lubriction and thus...provided a "runnable" car to move with your train. > > Sometimes if the journal was badly scored and it looked like it would run...especially if the car was "hot"..ie fresh meat..produce etc. You would have to rebrass the car..This could be done ont he road by use of the journal jack carried in the waycar..You hoped you were over a tie to se the jack on..placed it under the journal box and you could acutally jack up the journal...thus taking the weight off that journal by raising it it..You then took your packinghook and pullled out the wedge (on top of the brass) and the brass and put in the new brass you had brought up from the waycar. You oiled up the babbit side...shoved the new brass and wedge in and let the jack back down and you were ready to go... > > If thejournal was cut the rebrasing wouldn'tl last long and you would have to set the car out and the nearest rip track would send out a couple of carmen with a new set of wheels and they would rewheel the car at some remote siding. > > Wel that's probably more than most of you wanted ot know...but we were getting bits and pieces of the story regarding water..bearings etc...I wanted you to see how it all fit together.... > > My brakeman's experience was amplified by a two months stint on the Coucil Bluffs rip track on the RI in 1959...I was the "repack man"...that means I "dabbled in oil"...Journal boxes were repacked on a time basis...IIRC it was 18 months. When a car came ont he RIP..the lead man would chalk up the work to be done on the car..When it said "repack"..I would appear with my wheelbarow of dope...packing hook ..iron and oil...I hated that job, but it was good experience. > > I'll take questions if this diatribe has raised any. > > Pete > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: broken bolster <therrboomer@...> > To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tue, Apr 9, 2013 12:54 pm > Subject: [CBQ] Re: Water Cooled Journal Box Bearings > > > > > Trainmen sometimes put water on a journal to knock down flames > to prevent wood car floors from being ignited, particularly a > lumber load. > > After all a hot journal is most often due to lack of oil. > Any water added will further dilute the remaining lubrication > causing an a repack situation to more likely become a change > out. On the other hand, in the field you do what gets the > car to the nearest set out location. I started too late to get > very much plain bearing hot box experience. > > Dick Haave > *********************** > > --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, "qmp211" <milepost206@> wrote: > > > > > > Even with the premise surrounding the employee's duty to protect company property, I am not convinced water cooling for hot journal boxes was a standard practice. > > > > And since the history of the engine found at the link appears to be written by someone other than Baldwin, I would like to hear more about these water lines. Limping an engine to a terminal is a lot different investment/safety consideration than the conventional hotbox. > > > > Any other photos of this arrangement on other engines would be helpful along with any Baldwin info on theory and practice. > > > > As for the long tender deck, many builder photos were hand retouched from other images. I would suggest that this builder card MIGHT have reflected a long deck as delivered. > > > > But I tend to believe this was a possible revision in process for a longer tender and then redrawn to the as-built length or just a mistake. The builders and railroads bounced around many ideas for changes in the builder's card format. > > > > Anyway, that's my 2¢. > > > > Randy > > > __._,_.___
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