The Falles (Dubin Collection) Pullman P&L notebooks show sketches for the Cedar
Rapids / Zephyr Tower and the Spanish Range (presumeably the rest of the Range
and Crest series).
No mention is made of the Missouri, Denver, or Rocket Tower.
The following was called out on the notebook sketches:
CRI&P Cedar Rapids ex- Villa Anita shipped 12/13/40
CB&Q Minneapolis ex- Clan McGregor shipped 12/16/40 (I hadn't
noticed this car before!!) According to Ted's list it, too, got the skirt
treatment.
Dulux Black MDH 3728/29/30/31 Lettering Silver Bronze Body Murphy's Silver
Enamel E1114 (Silver Bronze)
CRI&P Cedar Rapids shipped 10/04/43
(second notation)
CB&Q Zephyr Tower no pedigree noted shipped 10/11/43
Exterior & Vest. AC Horns (???) Ena. Silver Grey #1020-L465 Shop Order #1542
09/08/43 Dulux Black Lettering MDH 3728
CB&Q Spanish Range Plan # 3046 & Plan #3410 6 Cars ( _Range & _Crest
for Texas Zephyrs) CB&Q Print D 3725
Dulux Black Lettering & Edging DuPont #95-004 MDH 3728/29/30/31 Calumet
Shops Color Samples #7 & #12 to be DuPont's Polychromatic Dulux Aluminum
Striping to be
DuPont's #95-021 Underneath Equipment and Trucks Painted Aluminum.
Are the MDH and MDD drawings the same? On the notebook page the MDH
3728/29/30/31 seem to refer to the lettering and ?? a CB&Q drawing. Is
MDD3725A the same thing or
a general L&P drawing???
The only reference I have shows the Light Gray (1938 20th Century Spec file
copy for the 23 Roomette Cars) color as Light Grey Polychromatic to match
DuPont #8576. This doesn't match any of the above Silver or Bronze Greys.
>From the delivery photos of the Range and Crest cars I would guess that the
>NYC Lt. Grey is not the color...it is much darket than these cars which were
>intended to blend in with Stainless Steel
Budd equipment. I agree that the repaints might have been a real Aluminum
color. I do recall the Power Cars and SSS cars being a Grayish Aluminum.. not
the same Silver, for example, as the
pilots of F units.... perhaps later they were "real" aluminum... any
recollections???
I will have to look at the DuPont reference book to see what DuPont numbers the
Pullman Dark and Light Greys carried. Anybody have CB&Q drawings for SSS cars?
It would be interesting to
see what the paint number references are.....
Charlie Vlk
The ELMS definitely had the light grey paint, as did (at least)
DENVER TOWER - you can see the paint codes & painting dates in Tom's
database. I can't recall where, but there is a really good color
shot of an ELM in the grey paint - and it is the same light grey as
on the pool cars. I believe there was a discussion on the PCL list
concerning the painting of the rebuilds and then the repainting upon
divestiture and assignment.
We know that not all paint changes are in the database, just as all
paint changes - and the original paint schemes - are in the Dubin P&L
book. In some cases, you have to extrapolate from known policies, and
in others, you have to look at the specs for the given cars as rebuilt.
I have seen a color photo though of one of the TOWERS that was NOT an
aluminum.
ROCKET TOWER was a rebuild of a 3584-B car,. COSTELLA PEAK. 3-41
(painting: CB&Q Streamline colors; MDD3725A (nd); D6083 RI Aluminum
bronze (4/30/53)
ZEPHYR TOWER was a rebuild of a 3584-B TETON PEAK 3-41 (only paint
notation, is the 1951 paint into CB&Q colors - which makes one wonder
what it was before - grey)
DENVER TOWER was a rebuild of a 3584-A POINT CASWELL 10-41 (paint:
Aluminum; Gray (11/29/43); MDD3725A (11/13/53)
Note that they are painted INTO CB&Q colors after at least 2 years of
being on the road - in one case 10 years after.
What were they painted in before that? Standard rebuild scheme -
overall grey.
At 08:18 PM 3/3/2008, Charlie Vlk wrote:
>Bob-
>I don't think the Elms and other "Silver" cars have Pool Car Light
>Grey Paint......
>The Pullman P&L Notebook has sketches for the schemes for the
>C&S/FW&D and CB&Q/RI cars and none of them
>reference the same Light Gray as the Pool Cars (same paint as
>NYC). There is a CB&Q Imitation Aluminum (which is
>not the Imitation Aluminum we know and love on F Units....debate for
>another thread). The TZ cars have THREE different
>Silver-ish paints called out...for the Pier Panels, the Stripes on
>the Belt Rail/Letterboard Rails, and the rest of the carbody.
>The Zephyr Rocket cars have a different paint called out. The
>color samples in the back of the book do not match the paint
>manufactuer numbers shown in the body of the book but the Pool and
>NYC cars are uniformly referenced as "Dark Gray" and
>"Light Gray", not Silver Grey or Dulux Aluminum as the Q cars paint
>is referenced as.
>I don't know what the CB&Q specs called for when and if they
>repainted the car but both Pullman notebook pages reference
>CB&Q L&P drawings. It appears that the Zephyr Tower was shipped
>after the Cedar Rapids (???renamed Rocket Tower or
>another car???) and the paint was different for the RI car as it has
>a different reference crossed out.
>Charlie Vlk
>
>The paint used originally in DENVER & ZEPHYR TOWER (I don't know
>about MISSOURI or ROCKET - would have to look) were originally the
>Pullman light grey scheme - like the ELMs got. Only after 1948 (1954
>in one case) did they get the CB&Q aluminum scheme. In photos (b/w,
>and some color, depending on a lot of factors), the scheme is nearly
>the same - but... if you were to look at the paint itself, the light
>Pullman grey (which is the paint used in the two tone scheme) is
>non-metallic and a deeper hue. The CB&Q paint is meant to serve with
>the Zephyr fleet better. The CB&Q paint is the same as that you'd
>find under most of the Shadowlining schemes.
>
>.
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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