Hi, John,
I am building some tan and green suburban passenger cars. Did anyone mention
the color of the interior seats ? Thank you.
Keith Erhart
----- Original Message -----
From: John Ziola
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Chicago Union Station
Bill,
I continue to be amazed at the vast amount of information the members of the
forum have, these being a prime example.
You as many others are certainly students of the Q. Don't know where you guys
get all this valuable information. It be of great help.
I too lived along the Q, Brookfield, Downers Grove and Clarendon Hills, and
did ride a number of steam locos (40's and 50's) although at the time I didn't
know one from the other, but it certainly was a thrill I will never forget.
Unfortunately I didn't become a true fan until recently (retirement). I thought
I remembered a roundhouse in DG but many folks disagreed, glad the memory
wasn't playing tricks. Remember many times we would watch the Zephyr fly by,
pre CZ, in the early to late 40's I believe, then later the CZ and the others
you mentioned although I didn't know the difference, Dad told me which was
which. Wouldn't it be fun to roll the clock back.
Thanks much,
John
clipperw@EarthLink.net wrote:
John,
Here is some more information concerning Union Station, and comments
in the many e-mails of this obviously interesting thread.
Prior to 1950, the commuter cars of the Q were almost exclusively
open platform cars on 4 wheel trucks that entered service in the
1920's. I believe many of these where rebuilt wood cars with steel
underframes. In the 1920's update, they were steel sheathed and were
consider "state of the commuter art". At that time, they were pulled
by K class 10 wheelers and P class atlantics. When the hudsons
arrived in the early '30s, the S1 and S2 road power pacifics were
downgraded to commuter service where they performed very well for 20
more years.
In 1949, the Cal Zephyr entered service pulled by the three sets of
three unit F3's numbered 9960 - 62, painted in the passenger paint
scheme and specially ordered for that service. In 1950, the first 30
stainless steel Budd gallery cars entered service. They were now
"state of the art" and copied in one form or other by many other RRs.
The 30 cars covered maybe half of the service requirements. The rest
of the service, particularly rush hour. was covered by the old
commuter cars now rebuilt with the tan, green and gold paint scheme.
These cars now included air conditioning, new seats and closed end
platforms. The rebuilt single level cars were run in conjunction with
the gallery cars or in full sets of nine cars by themselves. (In
those days, nine cars was the train length limit, I believe due to
station platform length and locomotive horsepower required to meet
the difficult schedule.)
Between, 1950 and Sept. 1952, some trains were diesel powered and
others were steam. Many trains, in those days, terminated at Downers
Grove, 22 miles out of Union Station, where there was a steam
locomotive servicing facility (open air in those days providing water
and a turntable (there was a roundhouse there also many years
before)) and a coach yard. The rest of the trains went on to Aurora.
Steam power was still pacifics supplemented by some downgraded
hudsons. (Four hudsons were fitted with the large turbo generators on
their pilot decks to supply train power. The pacifics and predecessor
steam locomotives also had the large generators in commuter service.)
From the arrival of the first gallery car until the BN rebuilt the
E-8/9s with headend power in the '70s, the suburban trains required
external electrical power for lighting and air conditioning. To meet
that need, Q rebuilt a series of heavyweight 6100 series coaches into
power cars. Some were all coach while others had a small baggage
section, used to handle baggage and delivery of the local Chicago
newspapers to the suburban towns. In the power compartment was a
diesel engine and generator set which supplied power to the train.
These cars rode on six wheel trucks, were air conditioned, had round
as opposed to clerstory (sp?) roofs, had new sealed widows and were
painted silver. Every train over two cars had one at one end or the
other. It was usually the "smoker" car although, in those days, there
were more "smoking" cars in the train. A few of these power cars have
survived in museums.
Diesels began to enter suburban service in the late 1940's. The first
were displaced shovel nose units from the second Twin City Zephyrs
and the first Denver Zephyr. About the same time, E-5s also would
show up in commuter service. One pulled the first complete set of
gallery cars in Sept. 1950. Then, E-7s started to show up. Finally,
the E-8s and E-9s came along. (The first E-8s were delivered in 1950,
but used mostly in road service.) Later, the E-8s and 9s were
preferred because of their better acceleration due to higher
horsepower needed to meet schedules, particularly on the "all stops"
trains. In the later Q years, E-8s and 9s were the only commuter
power. E-7s were used only on road trains. While Q rotated power
between road trains and commuter trains, a few units were often seen
in commuter; 9938B and 9945A are two that come to my mind.
The start of push-pull service in 1965, spelled the end for the old
single level coaches except for the power cars. Push-pull service
required that a 27 point m.u. cable run the entire length of the
train to control the locomotive from the cab car at the opposite end.
As the first cab cars went into service, Q began to rebuild and
update the gallery cars. (Some were already 15 years old!) Included
was the 27 point m.u. circuit. (In the BN era, the cars, were all
rebuilt again to add electric heat, replacing the original steam
heat.) The very first gallery cars numbered in the low 700 series,
were finally removed from service last year, after 55 years of
faithful service. In my mind they still looked better that the new
cars that replaced them and they probably were safer since Q
specified that the cars be built to withstand 1 million pound buff
loads, while the newer cars are only built to 800,000 lbs buff load!
As a kid, I grew up in Downers Grove. My earliest train recollections
date to the late 1940s. Unfortunately, I didn't become a real fan
until about 1955. I fondly remember those great days of watching
trains with my dad and friends along the "raceway". I used to think
that the Q suburban territory was "typical" of all railroads. It
wasn't until later that I realize how lucky I was to live along the Q
in the suburbs in the '50s and '60s! What a show that was with the
DZ, the two TCZs, CZ, NZ, KCZ, Blackhawk, EB, NCL, dinkies and a
constant parade of freights as well as the local that switched the DG
yard. If I walked down to the tracks, I could see a train almost
anytime. If one wasn't in sight, one would be along shortly. Golly it
would be fun to turn the clock back and spend a day at trackside again.
Bill Barber
On Nov 16, 2006, at 12:35 AM, CBQ@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Re: Chicago Union Station
>
> Posted by: "John Ziola" johnsclubs@sbcglobal.net johnz937
>
> Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:47 pm (PST)
>
> Thanks for the suggestion, I do have a number of commuter cars
> (stainless steel) double deck) and am looking for the older
> (heavyweights?) which were still in service when I first began
> commuting. I can't remember what units were used I know at one time
> they were E-8/9's but don't know the chronology.
>
> Thanks for your help Stephen,
>
> John
>
> "Stephen J. Levine" <sjl@prodigy.net> wrote:
> John
>
> If you are going to model CUS during the CZ period, do not forget
> the abundance of gallery commuter cars owned by the Burlington.
>
> sjl
>
> Bob Webber <no17@comcast.net> wrote:
> Also, look at the latest book on passenger train modeling from
> Kalmbach by Andy Sperandeo - it has some ideas on modeling passenger
> stations that might be of use, though Ed's book is the definitive
> book on Union Station.
>
> Depending on era you'd want a "connection" from the NYC, AT&SF and
> others for mail and sleepers.
>
> At 06:31 PM 11/14/2006, John Ziola wrote:
> >More great ideas,
> >
> > Thanks so much to you PAL and the others.
> >
> > John
> >
> >pal_houston <paulaleonard@comcast.net> wrote:
> > --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, John Ziola <johnsclubs@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Group I need some help,
> > >
> > > I plan on modeling Chg.Union Sta. (during the CZ period) and
> need a
> >diagram of track layout for Station as well as Passenger car yard.
> > >
> > > Also same for the yard at Clyde. Was the intermodal operation part
> >of Clyde or was it separate?
> > >
> >Check out Michael J. Spoor's "CB&Q in Color", Vol. 4. Page 118 has a
> >track diagram for the Canal St. (14th Street) yard dated 23 Nov.
> 1964.
> >This diagram has no scale, but you can also get some great
> information
> >by zooming in on Google Earth :).
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >PAL
> >
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