First, let's us define a couple of things. Per Diem is
the fee one railroad pay another for the use of the
second railroad's car. Demurage is what a shipper
and/or receiver pays the serving railroad for
retention of the car past the allowed "free time"
(usually 3-4 days). Russ is right about two waybills,
one in and one out. The accounting procedure is a
little more complicated when there is a transit tariff
in place. But yes, the same car could be used for
inbound and outbound loads. You can keep the car until
released by paying the demurage after the free time.
That has nothing to do with transit. Switching fees
would only apply if the car was moved after
"placement" i.e. from one door to another. In most
cases, there is no "switching fee" for straight
delivery or pick-ups.
--- thommack <thommack@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, this thread is getting better, just don't come
> to blows over
> little ole me! :-)
>
> Seriously, reviewing this thread, could my "traffic
> manager" at R&RW
> Metals have worked out a "transit tarrif" so they
> didn't have to wait
> for a new car to send out the large processed steel
> pieces (just keep
> the same car the steel piece came in on)? John says
> yes, Russ says no way.
>
> What confuses me still is if a load comes in on,
> say, a NYC gondola
> and will only take a day or two to process, why not
> pay a couple of
> days per diem just to keep the car on the property
> anbd get the load
> shipped back out in a more timely manner? Even if
> the empty car was
> picked up by the Q, theoritically, couldn't a good Q
> yardmaster just
> keep the car in the yard a day or two, then send it
> back to make sure
> the shipper got good service by getting an empty car
> in a timely
> manner? Or would the yardmaster try to get an empty
> Q gondola to the
> shipper, thus not have to share the revenue? I guess
> what I keep
> thinking of is that to my understanding the railroad
> charged a fee for
> each switching move, so the industry would have to
> pay for multiple
> switching fees, which seem to me to be much higher
> than just paying a
> few extra days per diem to keep the car if possible.
> For that matter,
> to my understanding, an industry has a couple of
> days or so to get the
> car unloaded, and if it goes overtime pays a per
> diem charge. So if
> the empty car "just happens to be here" when we're
> ready to ship the
> load out (because we got the steel piece processed
> in just a day or
> two or three), why can't the industry request to use
> the car still on
> hand?
>
> FYI, the reason why this is important to me right
> now is I have all my
> new waybills done for my CB&Q layout **except** for
> the loaded gons
> and flats going to R&RW metals. I need to know
> whether I can do a
> "loaded in, loaded out" waybill, or have to now do
> two separate
> waybills - loaded in/empty out, empty in/loaded out.
>
> Tom Mack
> Cincinnati, OH
>
> --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, "John D. Mitchell, Jr."
> <cbqrr47@y...> wrote:
> > Wrong, you would want to get the foreign car off
> of
> > your railroasd as quickly as possible, so you
> would
> > not have to pay per diem. And it is better to send
> > them back under load than back haul them empty.
> > Likewise, the home cars on foreign lines were
> > collecting per diem for their owners. You wanted
> only
> > enough home road cars on home rails to handle
> loading
> > requirements.
> >
> > --- soocarman <mitchc2@j...> wrote:
> >
> > > Also back in those days railroads had to get the
> > > cars back to their
> > > owners after it they are emptied. I don't think
> a
> > > railroad would
> > > use a foreign car for loading. You world use on
> of
> > > your own to get
> > > more money.
> > > If someone can explain this better in the rules
> that
> > > were in place
> > > back in the 60's.
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mitch
> > > --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, "thommack"
> > > <thommack@y...> wrote:
> > > > Thanks for the help so far. This is exactly
> what I
> > > was looking
> > > for. I
> > > > know if the load changes that would be two
> > > separate waybills/cars -
> > > > e.g. Coil steel comes into R&RW Metals in a
> coil
> > > car, goes out as
> > > > stamped and coated plates in a boxcar.
> > > >
> > > > The trickier one that really brought up this
> > > question is where the
> > > > steel comes in as a couple of large billets in
> say
> > > a gondola or on
> > > a
> > > > heavy duty flat, gets coated or treated (lets
> say
> > > within 1-2 days
> > > > max), then needs to go to final destination. I
> > > would have thought
> > > in
> > > > this case it might be more cost effective for
> the
> > > parties involved
> > > to
> > > > pay demurrage for an extra day or two for the
> car
> > > to stick around,
> > > > rather than waiting for a new car to come in
> and
> > > also possibly pay
> > > the
> > > > extra switching charge. But I wasn't sure if
> that
> > > was legal under
> > > > tarriff laws in 67/68. So, what's the verdict
> on
> > > this scenario?
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, Russell Strodtz
> > > <19main@g...> wrote:
> > > > > John,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have to disagree. The Transit Billing
> system
> > > did
> > > > > not allow for a car to arrive at a Customer
> and
> > > > > leave on the same billing. That concept
> would
> > > only
> > > > > apply to stop-offs and all they would allow
> is
> > > partial
> > > > > loading or partial unloading. Nothing could
> be
> > > removed
> > > > > from the car and then put back in.
> > > > >
> > > > > I stand by what I've already said.
> > > > >
> > > > > Russ
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: John D. Mitchell, Jr.
> > > > > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Monday, 08 August, 2005 22:02
> > > > > Subject: Re: [CBQ] Q Operations Question
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If there was a tariff for "transit
> privileges"
> > > for
> > > > > that industry at that point, then the
> steel
> > > could be
> > > > > processed with one waybill, one rate, one
> car,
> > > and on
> > > > > one billing. If not then there would be
> two
> > > cars, two
> > > > > waybills, two billings and in all likely
> hood
> > > two
> > > > > rates (finished products carry a higher
> rate
> > > than raw
> > > > > materials). A good traffic manager for the
> > > steel
> > > > > company would work out a transit tariff.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- thommack <thommack@y...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In 1967/68 timeframe, if a car on the
> CB&Q
> > > was sent
> > > > > > to an industry
> > > > > > with a load that was being processed and
>
=== message truncated ===
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