Hol,
Thanks for the information. I know the four pre-war
Diner/Lounge/Obs cars saw a lot of use on the KCZ after it's
original 1953 Dome Obs and Dome/Lounge/Coach/Dormitory cars were
put to use more frequently on the DZ and the TCZ. The pre-war
D.L.O's also saw service on the TCZ, running backwards right
behind a full Baggage car, when the Bag/Buffet/Lounge cars
(Silver Buffet/Salon) weren't used. With only four D/L/O's-
frequent use on a two-section DZ wouldn't be possible.
John
John:
You're correct about the use of Lancaster Club on the DZ, and
also its positioning. But it also ran immediately behind the
units on occasions when the car was used on the second
section. And its sister car, Happy Hollow Club, was also used
as a DZ dorm quite frequently. When neither of them was
available, the Missouri Tower (by this time just CB&Q 665)
was used. Crews liked the two Club cars better, as they had
lounge space they could relax in.
As for pre-war dinging-lounge0obs cars 300-303 on the DZ, I
only saw that once, and that was for a special movement of
Denver high school ROTC members (myself included) took the DZ
to Chicago enroute to Fort Knox for a week of training in the
spring of 1962 or '63.
Hol
Charlie,
I think you are right about the Lancaster Club
being used on the DZ. I think it was used when the
DZ ran in two sections and it was assigned to the
1st Section (Coach section) since, if used, the Dorm
space in Silver Garden/Silver Patio was minimal- and
the 2nd Section (Sleeper/First Class section)
usually had the Dome/Lounge/Dormitory 'Chuck Wagon'
car and Dome/Sleeper/Lounge/Observation car (Silver
Veranda/Silver Chateau) assigned to it. It was the
Coach section that got the hodge-podge of equipment
from the 'Zephyr Pool' and often had one of the
pre-war Diner/Lounge/Observation cars (Silver
Spirit/Star/Hours or Fountain) bringing up the
markers. I believe John Strauss' books 'Burlington
Route Passenger Trains' Vol. 2 or Vol. 3 has an
overhead shot of the two DZ sections at Denver Union
Station with the Lancaster Club positioned just
behind the Head-End cars on the Coach section.
John Olson
Wasn’t Lancaster
Club used as a dormitory car fairly regularly on
the DZ?...at least that car was painted silver.
Seems to me I’ve
seen some daily memos regarding make up of
trains but don’t recall anything about what
power is to be assigned.
But you are
correct, there must have been some guidelines
printed somewhere…..
Charlie Vlk
Bill,
I have both the original and revised editions of
this book and the
flow-charts of passenger cars are excellent, but
that is not what I am
looking for. The Denver Zephyr ran with 12 cars
to almost 20 cars,
depending on the season, and ran in two sections
(Coach and Sleeper)
during the heavy summer travel season. What
tonnage and number of cars
dictated whether it ran with two E-units, three
E-units or four E-units.
I know that the E-9's were the preferred power
on the DZ and CZ usually
got E-7's or E-8's, but there had to be Data
sheets telling the
Operating Dept. this information.
I know that non-Stainless Steel cars were not
allowed on the DZ- and
when extra cars were needed, Budd SS coaches and
domes (including
pre-war SS cars) were pulled from the 'Zephyr
Pool' to augment the
train. When two sections were run- the coach
section had a lot of
pre-war SS cars and usually KCZ
dome-coach-lounge-dorm cars 'Silver
Patio' and 'Silver Garden', as well as TCZ dome
coaches and pre-war
Diner-Lounge-Observations to augment and make a
presentable train worthy
of the DZ tradition. There had to be Data sheets
instructing the Coach
yard how the train was to be made-up.
I have almost every book ever printed on the 'Q'
during the 40's,
50's and 60's, and John Strauss' three volumes
on 'Burlington Route
Passenger Trains' are a wealth of knowledge-
including train consists on
given days, but there had to be operating
directives that told the
passenger dept. how all of these above stated
situations were to be handled.
John Olson
On 1/26/2017 5:51 PM, Bill Hirt whirt@fastmail.com
[CBQ] wrote:
> John,
>
> Fred Frailey's Twilight of the Great Trains
has some of the information
> you are looking for. The original edition
was from Kalmbach, but he
> expanded the book with a second edition
that is available from Indiana
> University Press. He has a nice large
chapter on CB&Q, GN and NP
> passenger operations in the mid-late
1960's.
>
> Bill Hirt
>
>
> On 1/26/2017 5:32 PM, John Olson trains28@bresnan.net
[CBQ] wrote:
>> Last night I was looking through my
'Burlington Lines Operating Data
>> Sheets', reprinted by the BRHS in 1998,
which lists all the scheduled
>> 'Q' freight trains operating during
1967 thru 1969- starting with Train
>> #60 thru #808, CB&Q-PC-UP
Runthrough service, CB&Q-EL Runthrough
>> service, C&S- FW&D trains and
Local Service Sheets. Each train has 1 to
>> 3 pages devoted to it- listing the
Schedule, the Grouping (order of
>> consist) in the train for set-outs and
pick-ups at terminals, total
>> number of cars & tonnage allowed if
2, 3, 4 or 5 units are used. For
>> instance:
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Bill Hirt <whirt@fastmail.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
John Olson- owner
Jim's Junction
811B 16th St. West
Billings, Mt 59102
406-259-5354
<trains28@bresnan.net>
<www.jimsjunction.com>
--
John Olson- owner
Jim's Junction
811B 16th St. West
Billings, Mt 59102
406-259-5354
<trains28@bresnan.net>
<www.jimsjunction.com>
--
John Olson- owner
Jim's Junction
811B 16th St. West
Billings, Mt 59102
406-259-5354
<trains28@bresnan.net>
<www.jimsjunction.com>
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Posted by: John Olson <trains28@bresnan.net>
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