John:
You're correct about the use of Lancaster Club on the DZ, and also its positioning. But it also ran immediately behind the units on occasions when the car was used on the second section. And its sister car, Happy Hollow Club, was also used as a DZ dorm
quite frequently. When neither of them was available, the Missouri Tower (by this time just CB&Q 665) was used. Crews liked the two Club cars better, as they had lounge space they could relax in.
As for pre-war dinging-lounge0obs cars 300-303 on the DZ, I only saw that once, and that was for a special movement of Denver high school ROTC members (myself included) took the DZ to Chicago enroute to Fort Knox for a week of training in the spring of 1962
or '63.
Hol
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of John Olson trains28@bresnan.net [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2017 11:53 AM
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Passenger Operating Data Sheets
Charlie,
I think you are right about the Lancaster Club being used on the DZ. I think it was used when the DZ ran in two sections and it was assigned to the 1st Section (Coach section) since, if used, the Dorm space in Silver Garden/Silver Patio was minimal- and
the 2nd Section (Sleeper/First Class section) usually had the Dome/Lounge/Dormitory 'Chuck Wagon' car and Dome/Sleeper/Lounge/Observation car (Silver Veranda/Silver Chateau) assigned to it. It was the Coach section that got the hodge-podge of equipment from
the 'Zephyr Pool' and often had one of the pre-war Diner/Lounge/Observation cars (Silver Spirit/Star/Hours or Fountain) bringing up the markers. I believe John Strauss' books 'Burlington Route Passenger Trains' Vol. 2 or Vol. 3 has an overhead shot of the
two DZ sections at Denver Union Station with the Lancaster Club positioned just behind the Head-End cars on the Coach section.
John Olson
Wasn’t Lancaster Club used as a dormitory car fairly regularly on the DZ?...at least that car was painted silver.
Seems to me I’ve seen some daily memos regarding make up of trains but don’t recall anything about what power is to be assigned.
But you are correct, there must have been some guidelines printed somewhere…..
Charlie Vlk
Bill,
I have both the original and revised editions of this book and the
flow-charts of passenger cars are excellent, but that is not what I am
looking for. The Denver Zephyr ran with 12 cars to almost 20 cars,
depending on the season, and ran in two sections (Coach and Sleeper)
during the heavy summer travel season. What tonnage and number of cars
dictated whether it ran with two E-units, three E-units or four E-units.
I know that the E-9's were the preferred power on the DZ and CZ usually
got E-7's or E-8's, but there had to be Data sheets telling the
Operating Dept. this information.
I know that non-Stainless Steel cars were not allowed on the DZ- and
when extra cars were needed, Budd SS coaches and domes (including
pre-war SS cars) were pulled from the 'Zephyr Pool' to augment the
train. When two sections were run- the coach section had a lot of
pre-war SS cars and usually KCZ dome-coach-lounge-dorm cars 'Silver
Patio' and 'Silver Garden', as well as TCZ dome coaches and pre-war
Diner-Lounge-Observations to augment and make a presentable train worthy
of the DZ tradition. There had to be Data sheets instructing the Coach
yard how the train was to be made-up.
I have almost every book ever printed on the 'Q' during the 40's,
50's and 60's, and John Strauss' three volumes on 'Burlington Route
Passenger Trains' are a wealth of knowledge- including train consists on
given days, but there had to be operating directives that told the
passenger dept. how all of these above stated situations were to be handled.
John Olson
On 1/26/2017 5:51 PM, Bill Hirt whirt@fastmail.com [CBQ] wrote:
> John,
>
> Fred Frailey's Twilight of the Great Trains has some of the information
> you are looking for. The original edition was from Kalmbach, but he
> expanded the book with a second edition that is available from Indiana
> University Press. He has a nice large chapter on CB&Q, GN and NP
> passenger operations in the mid-late 1960's.
>
> Bill Hirt
>
>
> On 1/26/2017 5:32 PM, John Olson trains28@bresnan.net [CBQ] wrote:
>> Last night I was looking through my 'Burlington Lines Operating Data
>> Sheets', reprinted by the BRHS in 1998, which lists all the scheduled
>> 'Q' freight trains operating during 1967 thru 1969- starting with Train
>> #60 thru #808, CB&Q-PC-UP Runthrough service, CB&Q-EL Runthrough
>> service, C&S- FW&D trains and Local Service Sheets. Each train has 1 to
>> 3 pages devoted to it- listing the Schedule, the Grouping (order of
>> consist) in the train for set-outs and pick-ups at terminals, total
>> number of cars & tonnage allowed if 2, 3, 4 or 5 units are used. For
>> instance:
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Bill Hirt <whirt@fastmail.com>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--
John Olson- owner
Jim's Junction
811B 16th St. West
Billings, Mt 59102
406-259-5354
<trains28@bresnan.net>
<www.jimsjunction.com>
--
John Olson- owner
Jim's Junction
811B 16th St. West
Billings, Mt 59102
406-259-5354
<trains28@bresnan.net>
<www.jimsjunction.com>
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Posted by: Hol Wagner <holpennywagner@msn.com>
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