There are multiple stories on this - I got mine from an interview of
a WP man on the train. It may be that there are multiple
understandings too. The CZ did offer to off load and / or push
through - both offers were denied - at least in part because they
didn't want TWO trains stuck. But I'm sure SP also thought they
could get it moving again, and there must have been a bit of pride at
stake too. Even if it was never really surfaced or understood.
At 03:18 PM 11/10/2006, Stephen J. Levine wrote:
>Bob
>
> My understanding, from a recent article in Trains, was that the
> CZ offered to transport passengers, but the offer was declined
> because the SP was so sure they could get the CoSF moving again.
>
> sjl
>
>Bob Webber <no17@comcast.net> wrote:
> They (The NYC) leased a variety of 10-6 sleepers - and
> from all three
>of the major partners. I have a partial list somewhere, gathered
>from Pullman NYC assignment records by Dave Staplin when he visited
>the Newberry Library. But there were plenty of times that that
>(leased) sleeper was unavailable or that it needed to be
>supplemented. As did the SILVER RAPIDS. Both stainless and two
>tone NYC sleepers show up a lot on CZ consists, mainly because NYC
>had a lot of sleepers - and from about 1954 on, their sleeper
>capacity simply wasn't used that much - and they didn't have a ready
>outlet (like the Pennsy did with the Florida traffic). They ended up
>selling a lot of sleepers to Canada and Mexico, and converting quite
>a few to ersatz SlumberCoaches (and then let the lease of their real
>ones go and they ended up on the NP and they sometimes showed up on the DZ).
>
>The consortium partners were not limited to the Q, WP & D&RGW. It
>included (at the beginning) the PRR, NYC, MP and SP. And later the
>AT&SF. The SP was included due to the original "sailings" from the
>Oakland mole, the AT&SF was the connection from San Francisco - their
>buses were under-utilized and WP included them in the contracts to
>bring passengers from SF to Oakland / Emeryville (depending on
>era). On the ticket, you could start from SF, and that connection
>was ticketed via the AT&SF. MP was included because of their
>original desire to have a St. Louis connection that would run via the
>Royal Gorge and Pueblo, connecting at Glenwood Springs. No matter
>what they tried, they couldn't get the schedules to fit just right,
>and that was dropped. The additional service was to be a dome coach
>and a sleeper. The SP, UP & AT&SF were in the contract for weather
>and wreck related blockades. In 1952, when the CoSF was stranded,
>the CZ was right behind it on Donner Pass - it made it through on the
>other track (some talk was made of using it to push the CoSF but
>smarter heads prevailed), and the rest of that week, the train
>detoured via Bakersfield (SLC to Bakersfield to Oakland) - the trains
>were late, but left on time. (That story is a good indication of why
>the WP & D&RGW never used E units and why the PA's didn't last long
>on the CZ on the D&RGW - all powered drivers & the F's torque were
>much preferred). The actual participatory contributions of the
>consortium participants varied greatly, the MP bowing out before
>providing much beyond planning aid.
>
>At 09:33 AM 11/10/2006, Stephen J. Levine wrote:
> >For its regular transcon service with the CZ, New York Central
> >leased one of the D&RGW CZ cars, unlike the Pennsylvania, which
> >owned its own. This, according to Karl Zimmerman.
> >
> > sjl
> >
> >rgortowski@aol.com wrote:
> > The light gray/dark gray NYC sleepers certainly appeared
> > on the CZ, even as
> >early as 1950. See the cover of Jeff Wilson's "Burlington in the Heartland"
> >and you can see what Bob Milner confirms was an NYC car in the 11th slot. I
> >bought one of the Railway Classics "River" sleepers just for this
> >possibility.
> >You can also see ACL fluted sleepers in 1951 as well in "Portrait
> of a Silver
> >Lady" Many foreign road cars were used, even before the 1952 extra cars, to
> >augment the consist.
> >
> >Rich
>
>Bob Webber
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
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