I *did* mention them, just not by specific name.
" Q cars with the audio feeds (not all had them)."
At 09:55 AM 11/1/2006, Stephen J. Levine wrote:
>Bob
>
> You did not mention the 1956 DZ cars that often got used on the
> CZ. They were, except for minor details, visually compatible with
> the CZ cars, but lacked the CZ's intercom connections, if I remember
> correctly.
>
> Photos of DZ cars on the CZ can be found in Zimmerman's
> California Zephyr book, in the Cause Celebre chapter (identified by
> car number indicator and vestibule door frame), and in Shafer, et.
> al. recent book, The Art of the Streamliner.
>
> sjl
>Bob Webber <no17@comcast.net> wrote:
> In looking at notes from the consortium regarding
> off-line / foreign
>cars, there was a distinct hierarchy for preferences.
>
>First off, one of the more common foreign cars found were the
>"flower" cars of the Q (6-6-4) that were typically found immediately
>behind the baggage acting as dorms when a non-CZ dome-dorm-lounge was
>used, as the replacement wouldn't have enough dorm space. Which
>brings up the first preference - Q cars with the audio feeds (not all
>had them). That allowed the cars to be used anywhere in the train
>without impacting the audio feed throughout the train, while keeping
>the look of the train fairly intact. Note that the most common of
>all foreign cars were the Q baggage cars picked up at Cicero &
>especially at Hastings at left at Denver - the latter rarely seen by
>CZ passengers, and could run between 1-5 cars (especially true after
>the Coloradoan discontinuance).
>
>Next, depending on segment, were the D&RGW P-S & the Budd dome
>coaches (ex C&O). These cars were every bit the equal and in some
>cases exceeded the CZ cars in quality. Most often seen on the Denver
>to Glennwood Springs/SLC/Oakland segments. If coaches, tucked right
>behind the baggage, if sleepers (5-6-5) right in front of the obs.
>
>The next preference were for cars that "fit the scheme". This
>changed as time went by, but it basically meant they wanted cars that
>were either stainless or mostly stainless (or aluminum paint). Cars
>from the NYC, ATSF,SP, C&O, NKP, ACL, SBD, PRR, and others fit the
>bill here. In fact, if you look real close at some of the most
>famous photos of the CZ on the front range or in the canyon, you'll
>see that there is a NYC or ACL car in the consist.
>
>Cars that "had nothing to do" - that is, were off season on their
>usual road - hence you see a LOT of ACL, SBD, NYC, ATSF.
>
>Cars that were available because the owning road had far too many
>cars - you see a lot of C&O, Milw, SP, PRR, NYC, NKP.
>
>Cars from connecting roads that you can grab in an emergency - UP,
>SP, ATSF, GN, NP, NKP, C&O, Milw (esp), C&NW.
>
>Remember that a LOT of foreign car sightings are tour or other group
>loadings. And you'll see "packs" of the cars. SP & UP cars are
>good tour cars.
>
>The first foreign cars allowed on a non-emergency basis were the C&O
>cars. The consortium modified the contract in 1952 when they
>realized they were going to leave money on the table if they
>continued with the "pure consist rule". They also realized they
>needed more cars. So they ordered cars and leased some C&O 10-6s for
>the summer.
>
>The most prevalent car to be seen are the C&O P-S pattern 10-6 from
>the 1950 order. Cars from that order/pattern seen on the CZ include
>cars from the D&RGW, B&O, C&O, NKP, C&NW, SP, IC. Not all LOOKED
>alike as the B&O & IC had theirs modified at the factory into
>smoothside cars. The next prevalent cars were regular 10-6's and 4-4-2s.
>
>I can guarantee you that you have seen far more photos with foreign
>cars in them than you think. Look at every CZ photo and look at the
>truck line. If it is a pure consist, all trucks will be covered
>(though not a 100% test as Q cars will also be skirted). Check the
>roof line, and you'll see some aren't Budd post war roofs or Budd
>roofs at all. Check the train board name plate, it may extend the
>width of the car. You don't have to read anything to recognize it
>as a non-CZ car, those three features usually will show it. There
>is an ACL car shown on a 1950 photo as one example in Portrait as one
>example. Those are hard to see as the faint purple on the train
>board doesn't show well on b.w photos. But they ARE there.
>
>Do not be fooled by captions stating "2nd section CZ". They are
>really advanced sections of the DZ, used for the good time slot
>afforded by the CZ. So while you can see all sorts of strangeness
>on those, they are not necessarily CZ trains - there were some CZ's
>run as 2nd sections but not many. There were also 26 car trains, but
>only 2 I know of.
>
>The roads listed are examples only, there were many more roads that
>had cars in the consists.
>
>At 01:07 AM 11/1/2006, you wrote:
> >Silver Rapids was a CZ car..... part of the CZ Pool. Foreign Sleepers I've
> >seen shots of in the CZ consist, NYC, PRR, IC, SP, UP, C&O, GN (although not
> >enough of the train to see if it was a GN Pullman in the CZ or a CZ
> >10-6 in a GN
> >consist), and ACL.
> >
> >Other than CN or CP the only foreign Pullmans I wouldn't expect to find in a
> >CZ consist would be Amtrak! :-)
> >
> >The CZ in one instants in 1959, went west of Plano IL with a Suburban power
> >car and 3 Gallery cars. Reason being the original west bound CZ that
> >day hit a
> >1957 Ford Convertible at Little Rock Road on the west side of
> Plano. They got
> >17 stopped about a mile west of that location just east of Sandy Bluff Road
> >grade crossing which is on the east side of Sandwich IL, well today
> >both roads
> >are part of Plano and Sandwich back then they were country roads
> crossing the
> >Q, right along US Route 34. It appears the make up CZ consist, the Q
> >took that
> >day's 18 from the dinning car back to the observation.
> >
> >I told Dave Lotz when his layout is up and running down there in the little
> >ole south, I'm going to run the "make up" CZ. The good thing is I won't have
> >numbers of flat wheels since his layout's east end is Galesburg!
> >
> >Loren Johnson
>
>Bob Webber
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
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