Bob
You did not mention the 1956 DZ cars that often got used on the CZ. They
were, except for minor details, visually compatible with the CZ cars, but
lacked the CZ's intercom connections, if I remember correctly.
Photos of DZ cars on the CZ can be found in Zimmerman's California Zephyr
book, in the Cause Celebre chapter (identified by car number indicator and
vestibule door frame), and in Shafer, et. al. recent book, The Art of the
Streamliner.
sjl
Bob Webber <no17@comcast.net> wrote:
In looking at notes from the consortium regarding off-line / foreign
cars, there was a distinct hierarchy for preferences.
First off, one of the more common foreign cars found were the
"flower" cars of the Q (6-6-4) that were typically found immediately
behind the baggage acting as dorms when a non-CZ dome-dorm-lounge was
used, as the replacement wouldn't have enough dorm space. Which
brings up the first preference - Q cars with the audio feeds (not all
had them). That allowed the cars to be used anywhere in the train
without impacting the audio feed throughout the train, while keeping
the look of the train fairly intact. Note that the most common of
all foreign cars were the Q baggage cars picked up at Cicero &
especially at Hastings at left at Denver - the latter rarely seen by
CZ passengers, and could run between 1-5 cars (especially true after
the Coloradoan discontinuance).
Next, depending on segment, were the D&RGW P-S & the Budd dome
coaches (ex C&O). These cars were every bit the equal and in some
cases exceeded the CZ cars in quality. Most often seen on the Denver
to Glennwood Springs/SLC/Oakland segments. If coaches, tucked right
behind the baggage, if sleepers (5-6-5) right in front of the obs.
The next preference were for cars that "fit the scheme". This
changed as time went by, but it basically meant they wanted cars that
were either stainless or mostly stainless (or aluminum paint). Cars
from the NYC, ATSF,SP, C&O, NKP, ACL, SBD, PRR, and others fit the
bill here. In fact, if you look real close at some of the most
famous photos of the CZ on the front range or in the canyon, you'll
see that there is a NYC or ACL car in the consist.
Cars that "had nothing to do" - that is, were off season on their
usual road - hence you see a LOT of ACL, SBD, NYC, ATSF.
Cars that were available because the owning road had far too many
cars - you see a lot of C&O, Milw, SP, PRR, NYC, NKP.
Cars from connecting roads that you can grab in an emergency - UP,
SP, ATSF, GN, NP, NKP, C&O, Milw (esp), C&NW.
Remember that a LOT of foreign car sightings are tour or other group
loadings. And you'll see "packs" of the cars. SP & UP cars are
good tour cars.
The first foreign cars allowed on a non-emergency basis were the C&O
cars. The consortium modified the contract in 1952 when they
realized they were going to leave money on the table if they
continued with the "pure consist rule". They also realized they
needed more cars. So they ordered cars and leased some C&O 10-6s for
the summer.
The most prevalent car to be seen are the C&O P-S pattern 10-6 from
the 1950 order. Cars from that order/pattern seen on the CZ include
cars from the D&RGW, B&O, C&O, NKP, C&NW, SP, IC. Not all LOOKED
alike as the B&O & IC had theirs modified at the factory into
smoothside cars. The next prevalent cars were regular 10-6's and 4-4-2s.
I can guarantee you that you have seen far more photos with foreign
cars in them than you think. Look at every CZ photo and look at the
truck line. If it is a pure consist, all trucks will be covered
(though not a 100% test as Q cars will also be skirted). Check the
roof line, and you'll see some aren't Budd post war roofs or Budd
roofs at all. Check the train board name plate, it may extend the
width of the car. You don't have to read anything to recognize it
as a non-CZ car, those three features usually will show it. There
is an ACL car shown on a 1950 photo as one example in Portrait as one
example. Those are hard to see as the faint purple on the train
board doesn't show well on b.w photos. But they ARE there.
Do not be fooled by captions stating "2nd section CZ". They are
really advanced sections of the DZ, used for the good time slot
afforded by the CZ. So while you can see all sorts of strangeness
on those, they are not necessarily CZ trains - there were some CZ's
run as 2nd sections but not many. There were also 26 car trains, but
only 2 I know of.
The roads listed are examples only, there were many more roads that
had cars in the consists.
At 01:07 AM 11/1/2006, you wrote:
>Silver Rapids was a CZ car..... part of the CZ Pool. Foreign Sleepers I've
>seen shots of in the CZ consist, NYC, PRR, IC, SP, UP, C&O, GN (although not
>enough of the train to see if it was a GN Pullman in the CZ or a CZ
>10-6 in a GN
>consist), and ACL.
>
>Other than CN or CP the only foreign Pullmans I wouldn't expect to find in a
>CZ consist would be Amtrak! :-)
>
>The CZ in one instants in 1959, went west of Plano IL with a Suburban power
>car and 3 Gallery cars. Reason being the original west bound CZ that
>day hit a
>1957 Ford Convertible at Little Rock Road on the west side of Plano. They got
>17 stopped about a mile west of that location just east of Sandy Bluff Road
>grade crossing which is on the east side of Sandwich IL, well today
>both roads
>are part of Plano and Sandwich back then they were country roads crossing the
>Q, right along US Route 34. It appears the make up CZ consist, the Q
>took that
>day's 18 from the dinning car back to the observation.
>
>I told Dave Lotz when his layout is up and running down there in the little
>ole south, I'm going to run the "make up" CZ. The good thing is I won't have
>numbers of flat wheels since his layout's east end is Galesburg!
>
>Loren Johnson
Bob Webber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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