Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters

["'John D. Mitchell, Jr.' cbqrr47@yahoo.com [CBQ]" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>]

To heat water in the tender, you flipped the little cam lever on top of the injector over and locked it down. In normal operation, an injector got part of its working energy by converting the "latent heat of vaporation" in the steam into kinetic  energy (water velocity). When the water got to the boiler check valve it "stagnated" or stopped and the pressure rose, forcing open the boiler check valve.The hotter the water, the less steam that could be condensed, therefore the less kinetic energy produced. The injectors got the rest of their energy from the "Venturi effect" that converted the drop in steam pressure to water velocity. BTW, no pump does a good job, pumping hot water because the low pressure on the suction side will cause the water to boil or in technical terms to "cavitate".   
 

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From: "Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com [CBQ]" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2015 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters

 

Thanks Louis for opening up another avenue for a story.  No. 1.  Yes there was a way to "blow a little steam back through the intake of the injector to the tender".  That provision worked well in cold weather, but it provided potential difficulties in warm weather if the fireman wasn't paying attention to his business.  In warm weather steam going back through the intake of the injector and hence into the tender would cause the water in the tender to warm up and, because of this....and i don't remember enough of my physics and thermodynamics principles to be able to accurately explain this phenomenum......but the warm water could cause the injector to not "pick up" the water to force it into the boiler.  

No. 2...at no extra charge.  On oil burning engines there were steam coils in the "bunker" where the fuel oil was held.  I believe the oil was what was known as  "Bunker C" oil..ie it was of a very heavy consistence...almost like Tar and hence needed a bit of warming to allow it to flow up to the atomizer in the firebox.  This was another situation which could be "overdone"...I read a story in an old Railroad Magazine about a situation where the fireman let too much steam get into the pipes in the bunker and the oil actually got so hot that the oil  "boiled over" and was running down the sides of the tender.

No. 3.  On the Rock Port Langdon and Northern we had a single stall enginehouse where both engine could be fit, just barely.  Heat for the house was provided by two coal stoves which, apparently on one occasion didn't do enough.  I have a copy of a telegram which my dad sent to my grandfather who was in Chicago on business with the CB&Q.  The telegram was addressed to Pete Hedgpeth  % O.E. Ward and said that "injector on Engine 440 froze up and broke...didn't notice until engine was steaming"...OK to use Engilne No. 2??.  My GF replied "OK use engine No. 2.    You ask  "Why did he have to ask...what else could have been done"?   Someone who knew my GF would know why...My dad didn't dare make any kind of "independent" decision without his father's OK".  That relationship continued throughout my GF's life and cause a great deal of distress in our family.  

Pete

-----Original Message-----
From: LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2015 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters

 

July 2, 2015

 

Pete, Leo and All - No body so far has mentioned any thing on how Q steam locomotives were "winterized." Serviceable locomotives in mostly unheated round houses could be connected to steam lines and kept warm to the extent that the water in the boiler and appliances would not freeze. Unserviceable locomotives awaiting repairs that were stored outside needed to have their boilers drained by removing the wash out plugs along the mud ring at the bottom of the firebox. Plus, appliances such as the air compressors, stoker engine, feed water heaters, sight glasses, air brakes and piping all needed to be drained and even blown-out with compressed air. This would prevent accumulated or condensated water from freezing and cracking or even bursting the appliances, pipes and heavy castings as in the air compressors or steam chests. Tenders were also drained by disconnecting the water hoses between the locomotive and its tender. Unserviceable locomotives that had been condemned and were awaiting sale for scrap could be ignored as it really didn't make any difference if they froze-up. Working locomotives such as switchers in yards would be left hot by the off going fireman banking the fire and filling the boiler so the next crew would have a warm locomotive. I seem to recall there was a way to blow a little steam back through the injector into the tender water line to keep the tender from freezing-up. IF all was done well, about the only thing a fireman coming on duty would have to do is take a wrench or hammer and bang on the sand pipes that may have frozen from any moisture in the sand. Should there be anyone still on this list that ran, fired or hostled steam, they are welcome to elaborate on my recollections. Happy Fourth Of July Holiday To Everyone - Louis

 

Louis Zadnichek II

Fairhope, AL       

 

In a message dated 7/2/2015 11:55:43 A.M. Central Daylight Time, CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:

Pete,

 

Thanks for sharing the recollection of the "clean-up" at the site of the Burlington passenger depot.  Great story.  Or as  Paul Harvey would say at the close of his radio show, "Now you know the rest of the story." 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2015 9:25 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters

 

Leo et al...One good anecdote deserves another...Deserved or not...here one comes.

When the passenger yard around what now is known as "Lincoln Station"...previously the Burlington Passenger Depot was put up for sale for development the Burlington was required to "disinfect" the land and environs.  During this process it was discovered that there was a huge "plume" of diesel fuel under the ground as well as other assorted contaminents one would expect to find around a railroad terminal facility. 

To correct this conditiont required hundreds of thousands of tons of soil to be hauled away and "cleaned" I think by some steam process and then returned.  When this started there were lots of newspaper articles and opinions expressed about the "contamination" and how it could have occurred.

Many of us who "have been young a long time" had some good laughs remembering how thin;gs were when diesel fuel cost 5 cents or so a gallon and fuel costs were not a consideration for anybody.  Leo's comment regarding an "overflow tank" pale in regard with what I used to see at the fuel racks at each end of the depot platforms.

For example:  Train No. 19 would arrive westbound around 11:30pm.  Usually two units would be the power.  The units would stop at the west end of the platform at the fuel rack.  The roundhouse laborer would put the fuel hose on the tank...turn on the pump and then go about his other chores ie turning the water hose on the windshield, checking the boiler water and whatever else he had to do.  

Meanwhile the fuel tank would fill up and diesel fuel would spill and gush out Niagra Falls like  around the filler hose and any other opening it could seek out...forming "puddles" ....actually more like lakes between the tracks and the tracks and platforms.  Eventually the laborer would stroll back to the hose and shut the flow off.  Probably, by that time 50 or more gallons would have accumulated and be in the process of soaking into the ground.  

Multiply the above procedure by 15-20 times each day....It takes little imagination to see why there was a "plume" of underground diesel fuel ...to say nothing of lube oil..detergent used for cleaning accumulated over 50-60 years.

Conclusion of the matter is that over this entire area now is built an "entertainment district" known as THE RAILYARD comprised of "nightclubs"..one of which is named...get ready for it...."RULE G",   hotels, restaurants, and even a huge "arena" used for concerts,basketball games and other enterprises you would expect in this situation.  Other than the "Canopy" which covered the platform area between tracks 1 and 2 and the station itself on the east side, you would never suspect that there was ever a railroad presence there.

Only those of us who remember how it was  "back in the day" know what's underneath it all.

Just think...all of this "conversation" sparked by comments regarding diesel engine heaters.  

It was Mark Twain who once said.   "I continue to be amazed at how much information can be obtained which such a small investment of fact.

Pete 

-----Original Message-----
From: qutlx1@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2015 8:24 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters

 

As explained on the hot start site these systems save idling and its fuel costs. In my experience back on the Q and early BN,fuel costs were not as critical. The site glasses for fuel level became very difficult to read as the units aged. One gentlemen I knew used a simply method to make sure a unit was full. When the diesel fuel began running out the overflow the tank was full and it was time to shut off the pump. 

The main fear was dead batteries and the related inability to restart the unit. 

Leo

On Jul 1, 2015, at 8:16 PM, ' sartherdj@aol.com' sartherdj@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Bob,

Thanks for that link.  According to the info presented these units were available as early as 1942, almost a decade before the "Q" began purchasing its GP's.

Later,  Dave Sarther     Tucson, AZ

-----Original Message-----
From: RWA325@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2015 6:09 pm
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters

 

Dave,

Here is a link for the HotStart layover heating system used by BNSF et al.

http://www.hotstart.com/en/home/products/locomotive-products/

I hope this helps.

Bob Arthur,

Princeton, NC

In a message dated 7/1/2015 6:38:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:

 

Can anyone help me to understand the function of the "overnight heaters" located on the fireman's side of the cab, long hood end, on "Q" GP 7's and GP 9's?  Is it to keep the diesel fuel from turning to gel during the extremely cold weather?   If so, does the diesel fuel circulate through the heater box to keep from turning to gel?  I've had no luck finding information on-line.

Thanks,  Dave Sarther      Tucson, AZ

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Posted by: "John D. Mitchell, Jr." <cbqrr47@yahoo.com>

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