July 2, 2015
Pete - Thanks. I had my usual Lines East "blinders" on and skipped over the
oil burners on Lines West. Yes indeed, as you described, there were steam coils
in the tender bunker tank for heating the Bunker C fuel oil. Such oil when cold
would congeal to a tar-like substance and had to be heated to where it would
thin out and could then be sprayed by steam pressure through the atomizer into
the firebox. In an unheated roundhouse, the tender coils could also be
connected to a steam line to keep the Bunker Oil warm enough to light-off a
locomotive. But, as you related, the Bunker C would expand when heated and so it
was very important not to heat the oil to where it boiled as it could overflow
the vent and create a sticky, nasty mess running down the side of the
tender on to the roundhouse floor.
As for blowing steam back though the injector to warm the water in the
tender, blowing back was also a necessity in clearing the metal filter in the
water hose connecting the locomotive to its tender. Not often, but it was
possible for rust, dirt and trash to accumulate in the filter to the point where
the water flow was greatly reduced. If an injector wouldn't pick up, part of the
trouble shooting was to blow steam back through the water hose to
dislodge such debris. The filters served their purpose by preventing
such debris from getting into the injectors. The head end brakeman would climb
up onto the tender, open the tank top and look/listen for BIG bubbles of
steam to break the surface meaning the hose should be clear. If the water
flow again fell off, it meant the debris had returned and it was time
to bring the train to a stop, turn off the water hose valves on both the
locomotive and tender, then disconnect the hose and remove the clogged
filter to clean it out track side. All part of a fireman's job. However, as you
point out, the fireman had to be careful, particularly during the hot summer
months, not to overheat the water in the tender by blowing back as then hot
water could not be picked-up by the injector resulting in a inoperative
locomotive until the water temperature dropped accordingly. All part of the ins
and outs of operating steam locomotives.
As an aside, when oil burning locomotives were retired and stored for
scrap, the tender oil tanks were almost never emptied, cleaned nor, as we
say today, gas freed. So, the scrap yards had to steam the tender tanks to
remove as much oil as possible, then fill them with water to cut against to
create an air hole so the fumes in the tanks wouldn't explode when
cut-up. It took an experienced burner with steel nerves to cut again a water
filled tender oil tank to open-up a ventilation hole. More than you
ever wanted to know.... Best Regards - Louis
In a message dated 7/2/2015 1:04:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
Thanks Louis for opening up another avenue for a story.
No. 1. Yes there was a way to "blow a little steam back through
the intake of the injector to the tender". That provision worked well in
cold weather, but it provided potential difficulties in warm weather if the
fireman wasn't paying attention to his business. In warm weather steam
going back through the intake of the injector and hence into the tender would
cause the water in the tender to warm up and, because of this....and i don't
remember enough of my physics and thermodynamics principles to be able to
accurately explain this phenomenum......but the warm water could cause the
injector to not "pick up" the water to force it into the boiler.
No. 2...at no extra charge. On oil burning engines there were steam
coils in the "bunker" where the fuel oil was held. I believe the oil was
what was known as "Bunker C" oil..ie it was of a very heavy
consistence...almost like Tar and hence needed a bit of warming to allow it to
flow up to the atomizer in the firebox. This was another situation which
could be "overdone"...I read a story in an old Railroad Magazine about a
situation where the fireman let too much steam get into the pipes in the
bunker and the oil actually got so hot that the oil "boiled over" and
was running down the sides of the tender.
No. 3. On the Rock Port Langdon and Northern we had a single stall
enginehouse where both engine could be fit, just barely. Heat for the
house was provided by two coal stoves which, apparently on one occasion didn't
do enough. I have a copy of a telegram which my dad sent to my
grandfather who was in Chicago on business with the CB&Q. The
telegram was addressed to Pete Hedgpeth % O.E. Ward and said that
"injector on Engine 440 froze up and broke...didn't notice until engine was
steaming"...OK to use Engilne No. 2??. My GF replied "OK use engine No.
2. You ask "Why did he have to ask...what else could have
been done"? Someone who knew my GF would know why...My dad didn't dare
make any kind of "independent" decision without his father's OK". That
relationship continued throughout my GF's life and cause a great deal of
distress in our family.
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ]
<CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent:
Thu, Jul 2, 2015 12:30 pm Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight
Heaters
July 2, 2015
Pete, Leo and All - No body so far has mentioned any thing on how Q steam
locomotives were "winterized." Serviceable locomotives in mostly unheated
round houses could be connected to steam lines and kept warm to the extent
that the water in the boiler and appliances would not freeze.
Unserviceable locomotives awaiting repairs that were stored outside needed to
have their boilers drained by removing the wash out plugs along the
mud ring at the bottom of the firebox. Plus, appliances such as the air
compressors, stoker engine, feed water heaters, sight glasses, air
brakes and piping all needed to be drained and even blown-out with
compressed air. This would prevent accumulated or condensated water from
freezing and cracking or even bursting the appliances, pipes and
heavy castings as in the air compressors or steam chests. Tenders were also
drained by disconnecting the water hoses between the locomotive and its
tender. Unserviceable locomotives tha t had been condemned and were awaiting
sale for scrap could be ignored as it really didn't make any
difference if they froze-up. Working locomotives such as switchers in yards
would be left hot by the off going fireman banking the fire and filling
the boiler so the next crew would have a warm locomotive. I seem to recall
there was a way to blow a little steam back through the injector
into the tender water line to keep the tender from freezing-up. IF all
was done well, about the only thing a fireman coming on duty would have
to do is take a wrench or hammer and bang on the sand pipes that may have
frozen from any moisture in the sand. Should there be anyone still
on this list that ran, fired or hostled steam, they are welcome to
elaborate on my recollections. Happy Fourth Of July Holiday To Everyone -
Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
Pete,
Thanks for sharing the recollection of the "clean-up" at the site of
the Burlington passenger depot. Great story. Or as Paul
Harvey would say at the close of his radio show, "Now you know the rest
of the story."
-----Original
Message----- From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ
< CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu,
Jul 2, 2015 9:25 am Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters
Leo et al...One good anecdote
deserves another...Deserved or not...here one comes.
When the passenger yard around what now is known as "Lincoln
Station"...previously the Burlington Passenger Depot was put up for sale for
development the Burlington was required to "disinfect" the land and
environs. During this process it was discovered that there was a huge
"plume" of diesel fuel under the ground as well as other assorted
contaminents one would expect to find around a railroad terminal
facility.
To correct this conditiont required hundreds of thousands of tons of
soil to be hauled away and "cleaned" I think by some steam process and then
returned. When this started there were lots of newspaper articles and
opinions expressed about the "contamination" and how it could have occurred.
Many of us who "have been young a long time" had some good laughs
remembering how thin;gs were when diesel fuel cost 5 cents or so a gallon
and fuel costs were not a consideration for anybody. Leo's comment
regarding an "overflow tank" pale in regard with what I used to see at the
fuel racks at each end of the depot platforms.
For example: Train No. 19 would arrive westbound around 11:30pm.
Usually two units would be the power. The units would stop at
the west end of the platform at the fuel rack. The roundhouse laborer
would put the fuel hose on the tank...turn on the pump and then go about his
other chores ie turning the water hose on the windshield, checking the
boiler water and whatever else he had to do.
Meanwhile the fuel tank would fill up and diesel fuel would spill and
gush out Niagra Falls like around the filler hose and any other
opening it could seek out...forming "puddles" ....actually more like lakes
between the tracks and the tracks and platforms. Eventually the
laborer would stroll back to the hose and shut the flow off. Probably,
by that time 50 or more gallons would have accumulated and be in the process
of soaking into the ground.
Multiply the above procedure by 15-20 times each day....It takes little
imagination to see why there was a "plume" of underground diesel fuel ...to
say nothing of lube oil..detergent used for cleaning accumulated over 50-60
years.
Conclusion of the matter is that over this entire area now is built an
"entertainment district" known as THE RAILYARD comprised of
"nightclubs"..one of which is named...get ready for it...."RULE G",
hotels, restaurants, and even a huge "arena" used for concerts,basketball
games and other enterprises you would expect in this situation. Other
than the "Canopy" which covered the platform area between tracks 1 and 2 and
the station itself on the east side, you would never suspect that there was
ever a railroad presence there.
Only those of us who remember how it was "back in the day" know
what's underneath it all.
Just think...all of this "conversation" sparked by comments regarding
diesel engine heaters.
It was Mark Twain who once said. "I continue to be amazed at how
much information can be obtained which such a small investment of fact.
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: qutlx1@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thu, Jul 2, 2015 8:24 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters
As explained on the hot start site these systems save idling and its
fuel costs. In my experience back on the Q and early BN,fuel costs were not
as critical. The site glasses for fuel level became very difficult to read
as the units aged. One gentlemen I knew used a simply method to make sure a
unit was full. When the diesel fuel began running out the overflow the tank
was full and it was time to shut off the pump.
The main fear was dead batteries and the related inability to restart
the unit.
Leo
Bob,
Thanks for that link. According to the info presented
these units were available as early as 1942, almost a decade before the
"Q" began purchasing its GP's.
Later, Dave Sarther Tucson, AZ
-----Original
Message----- From: RWA325@aol.com [CBQ] <
CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2015 6:09
pm Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Overnight Heaters
Dave,
Here is a link for the HotStart layover heating system used by BNSF
et al.
I hope this helps.
Bob Arthur,
Princeton, NC
Can anyone help me to
understand the function of the "overnight heaters" located on the
fireman's side of the cab, long hood end, on "Q" GP 7's and GP
9's? Is it to keep the diesel fuel from turning to gel during
the extremely cold weather? If so, does the diesel fuel
circulate through the heater box to keep from turning to gel? I've
had no luck finding information on-line.
Thanks, Dave Sarther Tucson, AZ
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Posted by: LZadnichek@aol.com
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