Thanks Stephen!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:20
AM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
The car did not have kitchen facilities. Just a
bar. I doubt if it could have served any meals.
--- On
Wed, 2/15/12, Duncan Cameron <d.cameron@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
From:
Duncan Cameron <d.cameron@sympatico.ca>
Subject:
Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Date:
Wednesday, February 15, 2012, 12:15 PM
Brad, not knowing that car I have to ask
whether it would have had dining facilities of any kind that it might
have filled this role on the ZR?
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 14,
2012 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
In the late 50s quite often the American Royal would utilize
the extra CZ Dome Obs.
BRAD
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr Rocket/American Royal
Zephyr
Duncan,
In 1962, looking at the American Royal Zephyr
schedule, what you suggest probably was the case. The westbound
American Royal did not arrive at West Quincy until after the
eastbound left, so the diner-lounge from northbound Zephyr-Rocket
would need to be used for the eastbound American Royal.
Also,
there was through express car service offered daily from St Louis to
Chicago, so there were already switching moves that needed to be
made at West Quincy.
I agree with John Mitchell that the
diner in 1960 could just go on to Burlington being closed for
service.
Bill
On 2/10/2012 4:01 PM, Duncan Cameron
wrote:
So what we have is apparently
this:
May,1957 to spring, 1960 -- dining
service is provided on the Zephyr Rocket both directions between
Burlington & St. Louis. The car is taken to Chicago on #15 and may be brought
from Chicago on #2.
Spring, 1960 -- #15 and #2 are cut
back to Chicago to Galesburg and by September the Official Guide
shows dining service being provided northbound St. Louis to
Burlington but southbound only from West Quincy to St.
Louis. Any other routing for the car unknown.
May, 1962 -- dining service is
reduced to St. Louis to West Quincy both ways and the car may be
riding between Chicago and West Quincy on the American Royal
Zephyr.
Spring, 1963 -- the service is
eliminated completely.
If anyone can confirm any of this or
fill in any blanks (especially between 1960 and 1962), please
do.
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 10,
2012 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re:
Zephyr Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
I do not have the timetable, but I have an
Official Guide from September 1960. It shows Train 2 originated
in Galesburg and Train 15 terminated in Galesburg. The
interesting thing was the Official Guide showed that the
Zephyr-Rocket carried a diner northbound St Louis-Burlington and
southbound West Quincy-St Louis.
Bill
On 2/10/2012
7:37 AM, Duncan Cameron wrote:
Bill, could I ask you to check
one more detail for me? I lack a timetable for
1959-1960.
You stated that, by May, 1961,
train #15 from Chicago was only going to
Galesburg.
I have in my notes that #41 &
#42 on the K-line were discontinued by May, 1960 but can't
confirm that with a timetable. If the info I have is correct, then #2 & #15
continued to run Chicago to Burlington for a year without
continuing down the K-line, unless its possible that #15 was
cut back in 1960 rather than 1961. However, I may be
wrong in the date I have for the discontinuance of #41 &
#42. That's what I need to firm up.
Regardless of when #41 & #42
stopped running though, it seems that the ZR diner came out
from Chicago on #15 from May, 1957 until the reduction in
service of #15. That leaves either one year or two
before the diner service on the ZR was reduced to St. Louis to
West Quincy. Did the diner still come out from Chicago
during that time? If so, what was its routing? If
not, where was it serviced? More mysteries to be
solved.
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday,
February 09, 2012 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re:
Zephyr Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
Not with the same number. The
Chicago-Hannibal service started in the summer of 1947 with
the idea of being a long distance commuter service. The idea
is that people outside to Chicago could make a long day of
it by traveling in the morning, having a couple hours in
Chicago, and then returning in the evening. This is
discussed in Richard Overton's History of the Burlington
Lines book. The train was listed as 15-42 west/southbound
and 41-2 north/eastbound.
By 1951, Zephyr 9902 was
handling this service. On the Hannibal sub, the northbound
was Train 41 and the southbound Train 42. On the
Chicago-Burlington portion, it was Train 2 eastbound and
Train 15 westbound. The Chicago-Burlington Train 15 also
made the connection with the northbound Zephyr-Rocket (also
Train 15) at Burlington. Parlor car service was provided
both directions. Zephyr 9902 offered dinette service both
ways. After Zephyr 9902 was replaced, dining service was
offered on the evening westbound Train 15.
I've
always thought that Burlington was an interesting place in
the post World War II era because they had two different
#1's and two different #15's stop at the station going
different directions.
Bill Hirt
On 2/9/2012
4:25 PM, Duncan Cameron wrote:
Bill, does that mean that #15
travelled Chicago-Burlington-Hannibal?
Duncan
----- Original Message
-----
Sent: Thursday,
February 09, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ]
Re: Zephyr Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
On the May-October 1961 time period,
looking again, by that time Train 15 had been cut back
to Chicago-Galesburg instead of Chicago-Hannibal. So no
more diner coming into Burlington on Train 15 and then
going south on Train 8. I have some Official Guides from
the period. If I get a chance, I'll look to see if they
have some additional information.
Bill
On
2/8/2012 6:24 PM, Duncan Cameron wrote:
Bill, that's exactly the
kind of original source info I was hoping someone
could come up with.
Thanks. So it
appears that the kind of exchange that Steve Suhs
described could well have taken place, but likely did
not involve a Vista-dome car, at least on a regular
basis.
Duncan
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