Brad, not knowing that car I have to ask whether it
would have had dining facilities of any kind that it might have filled this role
on the ZR?
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:08
AM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
In the late 50s quite often the American Royal would utilize the extra CZ
Dome Obs.
BRAD
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr Rocket/American Royal
Zephyr
Duncan,
In 1962, looking at the American Royal Zephyr schedule, what
you suggest probably was the case. The westbound American Royal did not arrive
at West Quincy until after the eastbound left, so the diner-lounge from
northbound Zephyr-Rocket would need to be used for the eastbound American
Royal.
Also, there was through express car service offered daily from
St Louis to Chicago, so there were already switching moves that needed to be
made at West Quincy.
I agree with John Mitchell that the diner in 1960
could just go on to Burlington being closed for service.
Bill
On
2/10/2012 4:01 PM, Duncan Cameron wrote:
So what we have is apparently
this:
May,1957 to spring, 1960 -- dining service is
provided on the Zephyr Rocket both directions between Burlington & St.
Louis. The car is taken to Chicago on
#15 and may be brought from Chicago on #2.
Spring, 1960 -- #15 and #2 are cut back to
Chicago to Galesburg and by September the Official Guide shows dining
service being provided northbound St. Louis to Burlington but southbound
only from West Quincy to St. Louis. Any other routing for the car
unknown.
May, 1962 -- dining service is reduced to St.
Louis to West Quincy both ways and the car may be riding between Chicago and
West Quincy on the American Royal Zephyr.
Spring, 1963 -- the service is eliminated
completely.
If anyone can confirm any of this or fill in
any blanks (especially between 1960 and 1962), please do.
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 3:25
PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
I do not have the timetable, but I have an Official
Guide from September 1960. It shows Train 2 originated in Galesburg and
Train 15 terminated in Galesburg. The interesting thing was the Official
Guide showed that the Zephyr-Rocket carried a diner northbound St
Louis-Burlington and southbound West Quincy-St
Louis.
Bill
On 2/10/2012 7:37 AM, Duncan Cameron wrote:
Bill, could I ask you to check one more
detail for me? I lack a timetable for 1959-1960.
You stated that, by May, 1961, train #15
from Chicago was only going to Galesburg.
I have in my notes that #41 & #42 on
the K-line were discontinued by May, 1960 but can't confirm that with a
timetable. If the info I have is
correct, then #2 & #15 continued to run Chicago to Burlington for a
year without continuing down the K-line, unless its possible that #15
was cut back in 1960 rather than 1961. However, I may be wrong in
the date I have for the discontinuance of #41 & #42. That's
what I need to firm up.
Regardless of when #41 & #42 stopped
running though, it seems that the ZR diner came out from Chicago on #15
from May, 1957 until the reduction in service of #15. That leaves
either one year or two before the diner service on the ZR was reduced to
St. Louis to West Quincy. Did the diner still come out from
Chicago during that time? If so, what was its routing? If
not, where was it serviced? More mysteries to be
solved.
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012
9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
Not with the same number. The Chicago-Hannibal
service started in the summer of 1947 with the idea of being a long
distance commuter service. The idea is that people outside to Chicago
could make a long day of it by traveling in the morning, having a
couple hours in Chicago, and then returning in the evening. This is
discussed in Richard Overton's History of the Burlington Lines book.
The train was listed as 15-42 west/southbound and 41-2
north/eastbound.
By 1951, Zephyr 9902 was handling this
service. On the Hannibal sub, the northbound was Train 41 and the
southbound Train 42. On the Chicago-Burlington portion, it was Train 2
eastbound and Train 15 westbound. The Chicago-Burlington Train 15 also
made the connection with the northbound Zephyr-Rocket (also Train 15)
at Burlington. Parlor car service was provided both directions. Zephyr
9902 offered dinette service both ways. After Zephyr 9902 was
replaced, dining service was offered on the evening westbound Train
15.
I've always thought that Burlington was an interesting
place in the post World War II era because they had two different #1's
and two different #15's stop at the station going different
directions.
Bill Hirt
On 2/9/2012 4:25 PM, Duncan
Cameron wrote:
Bill, does that mean that #15 travelled
Chicago-Burlington-Hannibal?
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 09,
2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
On the May-October 1961 time period, looking
again, by that time Train 15 had been cut back to
Chicago-Galesburg instead of Chicago-Hannibal. So no more diner
coming into Burlington on Train 15 and then going south on Train
8. I have some Official Guides from the period. If I get a chance,
I'll look to see if they have some additional
information.
Bill
On 2/8/2012 6:24 PM, Duncan
Cameron wrote:
Bill, that's exactly the kind of
original source info I was hoping someone could come up
with.
Thanks. So it appears that
the kind of exchange that Steve Suhs described could well have
taken place, but likely did not involve a Vista-dome car, at
least on a regular basis.
Duncan
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