In the late 50s quite often the American Royal would utilize the extra CZ
Dome Obs.
BRAD
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr Rocket/American Royal
Zephyr
Duncan,
In 1962, looking at the American Royal Zephyr schedule, what
you suggest probably was the case. The westbound American Royal did not arrive
at West Quincy until after the eastbound left, so the diner-lounge from
northbound Zephyr-Rocket would need to be used for the eastbound American
Royal.
Also, there was through express car service offered daily from St
Louis to Chicago, so there were already switching moves that needed to be made
at West Quincy.
I agree with John Mitchell that the diner in 1960 could
just go on to Burlington being closed for service.
Bill
On
2/10/2012 4:01 PM, Duncan Cameron wrote:
So what we have is apparently this:
May,1957 to spring, 1960 -- dining service is
provided on the Zephyr Rocket both directions between Burlington & St.
Louis. The car is taken to Chicago on #15
and may be brought from Chicago on #2.
Spring, 1960 -- #15 and #2 are cut back to
Chicago to Galesburg and by September the Official Guide shows dining service
being provided northbound St. Louis to Burlington but southbound only from
West Quincy to St. Louis. Any other routing for the car
unknown.
May, 1962 -- dining service is reduced to St.
Louis to West Quincy both ways and the car may be riding between Chicago and
West Quincy on the American Royal Zephyr.
Spring, 1963 -- the service is eliminated
completely.
If anyone can confirm any of this or fill in any
blanks (especially between 1960 and 1962), please do.
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 3:25
PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
I do not have the timetable, but I have an Official Guide
from September 1960. It shows Train 2 originated in Galesburg and Train 15
terminated in Galesburg. The interesting thing was the Official Guide showed
that the Zephyr-Rocket carried a diner northbound St Louis-Burlington and
southbound West Quincy-St Louis.
Bill
On 2/10/2012 7:37 AM,
Duncan Cameron wrote:
Bill, could I ask you to check one more
detail for me? I lack a timetable for 1959-1960.
You stated that, by May, 1961, train #15 from
Chicago was only going to Galesburg.
I have in my notes that #41 & #42 on the
K-line were discontinued by May, 1960 but can't confirm that with a
timetable. If the info I have is
correct, then #2 & #15 continued to run Chicago to Burlington for a
year without continuing down the K-line, unless its possible that #15 was
cut back in 1960 rather than 1961. However, I may be wrong in the
date I have for the discontinuance of #41 & #42. That's what I
need to firm up.
Regardless of when #41 & #42 stopped
running though, it seems that the ZR diner came out from Chicago on #15
from May, 1957 until the reduction in service of #15. That leaves
either one year or two before the diner service on the ZR was reduced to
St. Louis to West Quincy. Did the diner still come out from Chicago
during that time? If so, what was its routing? If not, where
was it serviced? More mysteries to be solved.
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012
9:04 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
Not with the same number. The Chicago-Hannibal service
started in the summer of 1947 with the idea of being a long distance
commuter service. The idea is that people outside to Chicago could make
a long day of it by traveling in the morning, having a couple hours in
Chicago, and then returning in the evening. This is discussed in Richard
Overton's History of the Burlington Lines book. The train was listed as
15-42 west/southbound and 41-2 north/eastbound.
By 1951, Zephyr
9902 was handling this service. On the Hannibal sub, the northbound was
Train 41 and the southbound Train 42. On the Chicago-Burlington portion,
it was Train 2 eastbound and Train 15 westbound. The Chicago-Burlington
Train 15 also made the connection with the northbound Zephyr-Rocket
(also Train 15) at Burlington. Parlor car service was provided both
directions. Zephyr 9902 offered dinette service both ways. After Zephyr
9902 was replaced, dining service was offered on the evening westbound
Train 15.
I've always thought that Burlington was an interesting
place in the post World War II era because they had two different #1's
and two different #15's stop at the station going different
directions.
Bill Hirt
On 2/9/2012 4:25 PM, Duncan Cameron
wrote:
Bill, does that mean that #15 travelled
Chicago-Burlington-Hannibal?
Duncan
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 09,
2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Zephyr
Rocket/American Royal Zephyr
Duncan,
On the May-October 1961 time period, looking
again, by that time Train 15 had been cut back to Chicago-Galesburg
instead of Chicago-Hannibal. So no more diner coming into Burlington
on Train 15 and then going south on Train 8. I have some Official
Guides from the period. If I get a chance, I'll look to see if they
have some additional information.
Bill
On 2/8/2012
6:24 PM, Duncan Cameron wrote:
Bill, that's exactly the kind of
original source info I was hoping someone could come up
with.
Thanks. So it appears that the
kind of exchange that Steve Suhs described could well have taken
place, but likely did not involve a Vista-dome car, at least on a
regular basis.
Duncan
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