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Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q....combination cars

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q....combination cars
From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:27:05 -0400
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Charlie et al

At the risk of being confirmed as?certificably unknowledgable I'll risk a 
tentatative contradiction to your assertion that the Q never puchased combine 
cars specifically for branchline service.

There was a series..I think there were 8-10 cars in it including the 3537 which 
ran on the Villisca-Corning branch for many years was included in that 
series...These cars were not equipped with steam lines nor electric lights or 
other electrical "appurtenances".? They came from the "factory" equipped with 
coal stoves and Aladin (sp) kerosene lights...The had steel plates at each end 
rather than gates and open vestibules with no "trap" arrangements.? These cars 
were all steel and equipped with 6 wheel trucks.? And, IIRC were puchased 
specifically for mixed train service.?? Jim Christen and I rode the 3537 at 
least once a year from 1949-1958 between Villisca and Corning on trains 94 and 
93.

I believe that Mike Spoor commented on this series of cars as per above in one 
of his "color pictorial"? books.

Maybe I'll look it up....and again maybe I'll just wait for someone else to 
offer comments pro or con.

Pete




-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net>
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q






Jonathan-
An excellent treatsie... 
.....but I would differ with you on one fine point..... 
The Q, unlike other roads, really didn't build any cars new for Branchline 
service.
For example, the "shorty" steel combines, which were rebuilt for branchline 
service, were RPOs built right before the Post Office put mandatory standards 
in place for Mail Cars.... rendering the almost brand-new cars unsuited for 
their intended use. They got rebuilt (a couple of times?) into baggage and 
RPO/Combine passenger cars and because of their size were used in local and 
branchline mixed train service.
Same thing with wooden cars. I'd say that the Drovers Waycars were the only 
purpose-built cars that got used in branchline service (and I am not talking 
about the Branchline Combine Waycars here... I mean the 30' Waycars that were 
fitted out with extra bunks for drovers service). The Q rebuilt older coaches 
and combines with Cupolas and had several styles of Branchline Combine 
Waycars.... the most known to modelers being the one that Bernie Corbin 
provided a picture of that ran in Model Railroader in the mid 50's.... (I think 
it accompanied an article on kitbashing an Ambroid combine into one). These 
were the CW-7s of 1913. But there were earlier types, some of which survived to 
be photographed that had the old reverse curve small cupola .... and there were 
probably even earlier ones that didn't get photographed.
Early on some waycars had side doors and some passenger seats, and very late in 
the game a few were fitted out with a baggage door and some walkover seats for 
branchline passengers. 
The Q was a very... err.. frugal... railroad and nothing was ever wasted... and 
has been pointed out, the branchline mixed trains got the hand-me-downs.... in 
motive power and passenger carrying cars.
Charlie Vlk 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Duncan Cameron 
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q

Jonathan,
Very well done. Brief and very helpful to a modeller.
The train I'm modelling on the old Keokuk and Western in 1962-63 will be pulled 
by an NW2, includes a variety of freight equipment and ultimately will have a 
kit-bashed model of a Q branchline combine as showed in the Freight and Colour 
guide. A good picture of a similar train is in Mike Spoor's In Colour volume 3.
Duncan Cameron

----- Original Message ----- 
From: bigbearoak 
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q

Until I read these postings, I hadn't realized to what extent the character of 
the Burlington was expressed in its mixed trains - much as it was in the 
distinctive qualities of its steam engines or passenger equipment. 

As the various postings indicate, the Q ran a variety of mixed train types. 
That in itself is no surprise; as a general rule on US railroads, there's 
probably no other kind of train where you'd see greater variety, even on trains 
from the same railroad. But the 'mix' of mixed trains on the Burlington wasn't 
random or a hodge-podge of components. There was a definite evolution of 
characteristic consists - which is of interest if, say, you are trying to model 
a mixed train for a particular era. 

Early on, these branchline trains looked very much like the mixeds on any US 
shortline or branchline - a smaller, older engine relegated to the lighter 
track and traffic of a feeder line, pulling a short string of cars trailed by a 
wooden combine or maybe a drover's caboose. There were also a handful of shorty 
passenger cars, both wood and steel, built for branchline service, during the 
early part of the 20th c. Motive power varied, but this service was, on many 
divisions, the last niche for the railroad's Class "A" 4-4-0s, what justified 
their rebuilding and continued service through the 1920s. This form of mixed 
train would have been fairly typical from, say, the 1904 renumbering to the 
1928 relettering. In a few areas, such trains persisted much longer, through 
the Depression and WW II into the 1950s. You could model this type of train in 
HO using a trusty NPP K-2 4-6-0, a LaBelle or Railway Classics drover's 
caboose, and period freight cars of your choice. The drover's caboose could be 
replaced by a NKP shorty combine (CF-7). And in some regions, an extra express 
reefer or cream car would be a plausible addition. 

In the late 1920s and early '30s, economic and technological changes altered 
the appearance and consist of this traditional mixed train on most of the 
Burlington's branchlines. The rise of internal combustion technology prompted 
the railroad to retire its aging fleet of Class "A" Americans. The steamers 
were 35-40 years old by then and having to haul freight cars considerably 
heavier than they were designed to. Declining traffic and the frugality of the 
railroad had allowed them to keep working branchline mixeds well into the 
1920s, but when gas-electrics appeared, the railroad quickly replaced them with 
the internal combustion units. The gas-electrics could haul a few freight cars, 
but normally they operated with just a single trailer car - sometimes a 
baggage-RPO, sometimes a combine, sometimes a coach, but almost always an 
older, wooden car (saved fuel, and in truth, the gas-electrics weren't that 
powerful). When traffic warranted, a steam engine would replace the 
gas-electric. Ten wheelers were common, but Atlantics, Pacifics, moguls and 
prairies might be used, depending on topography, tonnage, and era. 

Another set of changes occurred after World War II, the result of further 
retirement of old equipment and changing traffic patterns. By this time, the 
oldest, wooden passenger cars were wearing out, as were some of the old 
gas-electrics. Declining traffic led to the abandonment of some routes and 
trains, resulting in a surplus of both gas electrics and steel passenger cars. 
These now became the main source of passenger equipment on branchline trains. 
Some coaches were used as-is, some were converted into combines. Some 
gas-electrics, with motors removed also were converted to combines. You can see 
various examples on the Washington, IA branch and the Sterling-Cheyenne line, 
where an SW-1 or NW-2 came in as the worthy successor to an Atlantic or 
Ten-Wheeler, or in the case of the Sterling line a gas-electric. Center cabs 
were also used as motive power on some branches. As for modeling, you could use 
a Branchline passenger coach as a stand-in for a 6100-series coach, or use the 
real thing from NKP or Aurora. And there are many kit-bashing possibilities for 
unique branchline cars the Q cannibalized out of its own equipment. Throwing in 
an express car or three - either the older wooden express reefers or the newer 
BE-1 troop sleeper rebuilds - would be plausible for some lines.

A different solution was developed where passenger traffic was light and/or 
grades heavy, as on the Deadwood, SD branch. There, a standard way car was 
modified with extra seats and side door, with the train hauled by a pair of 
SD-9s. Again, models are available for both the front and rear end. I'm sure 
there were lots of other lines where the occasional passenger was accommodated 
in an unmodified waycar.

Hope this pocket history is somewhat clarifying. Various Burlington Bulletins 
have good pictures of CB&Q mixed trains, especially BB 30 on Washington, IA. 
Also see Jones and Coleman's book on the Sterling branch and various South 
Platte Press publications on different Mid-western branhes; more pictures are 
scattered through the color books of Mike Spoor and Al Holck, and check the 
Otto Perry archive at the Denver Public Library - and of course Bill Glick's 
comprehensive passenger car trilogy for pictures, diagrams, and histories of 
the Q's distinctive equipment. 

Jonathan

--- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin" <dholschuh@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone out there if mixed trains on Q were all the same.I know trains 92 
> & 93 on the Sterling Denrock branch were mixed.I'm assuming the passengers 
> were accomadated on the caboose.But were there other mixed trains that ran 
> with a baggage car or maybe a combine then a caboose.
> 
> Dustin Holschuh
> Rock Falls,Il
>

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