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Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q

To: <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q
From: "Duncan Cameron" <d.cameron@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:03:02 -0400
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Archie, thanks for the details on the crash.  I knew it had happened and that 
63 was the end of the combine's life, but didn't know all the details.  Great 
to know.
Duncan

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Archie 
  To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q


  Duncan, I happen to have a small bit of remembrance of the local that ran on 
the old K&W. Sometime in 1963 I believe because the student brakeman on the 
gravel train was Raymond Witthouse who happened to be the last protected 
brakeman under the dovetailing of seniority for yard and road men which took 
place in 1963. The local got permission from the agent at Alexandria to enter 
the Kline main off of the K&W and head north to Keokuk. I assume the agent had 
been in contact with the dispatcher. Just as they got their train on the Kline, 
the gravel train also heading north to Keokuk came around the curve and rear 
ended the coach on the local. The engineer and brakeman joined the birdies and 
left the student brakie on the engine. He didn't get hurt but they got pretty 
scuffed up. The coach was probably damaged beyond repair and was taken to the 
rip track at Hannibal. One of the carmen either bought or borrowed the stove 
out of the coach and years later I purchased it from him out of his barn. 
Evidently he had never used it because I found a 1963 timetable and a deck of 
cards in the firebox. The agent&dispatcher, were pulled out of service but 
returned to work later. The agent Walter Kinkeade was a good friend of mine and 
he died last summer. When he tore the Alexandria depot down he took the lumber 
and built a new house with it over in Wayland next station on the K&W. I still 
have the stove. Archie
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Duncan Cameron 
  To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q

  Jonathan,
  Very well done. Brief and very helpful to a modeller.
  The train I'm modelling on the old Keokuk and Western in 1962-63 will be 
pulled by an NW2, includes a variety of freight equipment and ultimately will 
have a kit-bashed model of a Q branchline combine as showed in the Freight and 
Colour guide. A good picture of a similar train is in Mike Spoor's In Colour 
volume 3.
  Duncan Cameron

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: bigbearoak 
  To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:51 PM
  Subject: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q

  Until I read these postings, I hadn't realized to what extent the character 
of the Burlington was expressed in its mixed trains - much as it was in the 
distinctive qualities of its steam engines or passenger equipment. 

  As the various postings indicate, the Q ran a variety of mixed train types. 
That in itself is no surprise; as a general rule on US railroads, there's 
probably no other kind of train where you'd see greater variety, even on trains 
from the same railroad. But the 'mix' of mixed trains on the Burlington wasn't 
random or a hodge-podge of components. There was a definite evolution of 
characteristic consists - which is of interest if, say, you are trying to model 
a mixed train for a particular era. 

  Early on, these branchline trains looked very much like the mixeds on any US 
shortline or branchline - a smaller, older engine relegated to the lighter 
track and traffic of a feeder line, pulling a short string of cars trailed by a 
wooden combine or maybe a drover's caboose. There were also a handful of shorty 
passenger cars, both wood and steel, built for branchline service, during the 
early part of the 20th c. Motive power varied, but this service was, on many 
divisions, the last niche for the railroad's Class "A" 4-4-0s, what justified 
their rebuilding and continued service through the 1920s. This form of mixed 
train would have been fairly typical from, say, the 1904 renumbering to the 
1928 relettering. In a few areas, such trains persisted much longer, through 
the Depression and WW II into the 1950s. You could model this type of train in 
HO using a trusty NPP K-2 4-6-0, a LaBelle or Railway Classics drover's 
caboose, and period freight cars of your choice. The drover's caboose could be 
replaced by a NKP shorty combine (CF-7). And in some regions, an extra express 
reefer or cream car would be a plausible addition. 

  In the late 1920s and early '30s, economic and technological changes altered 
the appearance and consist of this traditional mixed train on most of the 
Burlington's branchlines. The rise of internal combustion technology prompted 
the railroad to retire its aging fleet of Class "A" Americans. The steamers 
were 35-40 years old by then and having to haul freight cars considerably 
heavier than they were designed to. Declining traffic and the frugality of the 
railroad had allowed them to keep working branchline mixeds well into the 
1920s, but when gas-electrics appeared, the railroad quickly replaced them with 
the internal combustion units. The gas-electrics could haul a few freight cars, 
but normally they operated with just a single trailer car - sometimes a 
baggage-RPO, sometimes a combine, sometimes a coach, but almost always an 
older, wooden car (saved fuel, and in truth, the gas-electrics weren't that 
powerful). When traffic warranted, a steam engine would replace the 
gas-electric. Ten wheelers were common, but Atlantics, Pacifics, moguls and 
prairies might be used, depending on topography, tonnage, and era. 

  Another set of changes occurred after World War II, the result of further 
retirement of old equipment and changing traffic patterns. By this time, the 
oldest, wooden passenger cars were wearing out, as were some of the old 
gas-electrics. Declining traffic led to the abandonment of some routes and 
trains, resulting in a surplus of both gas electrics and steel passenger cars. 
These now became the main source of passenger equipment on branchline trains. 
Some coaches were used as-is, some were converted into combines. Some 
gas-electrics, with motors removed also were converted to combines. You can see 
various examples on the Washington, IA branch and the Sterling-Cheyenne line, 
where an SW-1 or NW-2 came in as the worthy successor to an Atlantic or 
Ten-Wheeler, or in the case of the Sterling line a gas-electric. Center cabs 
were also used as motive power on some branches. As for modeling, you could use 
a Branchline passenger coach as a stand-in for a 6100-series coach, or use the 
real thing from NKP or Aurora. And there are many kit-bashing possibilities for 
unique branchline cars the Q cannibalized out of its own equipment. Throwing in 
an express car or three - either the older wooden express reefers or the newer 
BE-1 troop sleeper rebuilds - would be plausible for some lines.

  A different solution was developed where passenger traffic was light and/or 
grades heavy, as on the Deadwood, SD branch. There, a standard way car was 
modified with extra seats and side door, with the train hauled by a pair of 
SD-9s. Again, models are available for both the front and rear end. I'm sure 
there were lots of other lines where the occasional passenger was accommodated 
in an unmodified waycar.

  Hope this pocket history is somewhat clarifying. Various Burlington Bulletins 
have good pictures of CB&Q mixed trains, especially BB 30 on Washington, IA. 
Also see Jones and Coleman's book on the Sterling branch and various South 
Platte Press publications on different Mid-western branhes; more pictures are 
scattered through the color books of Mike Spoor and Al Holck, and check the 
Otto Perry archive at the Denver Public Library - and of course Bill Glick's 
comprehensive passenger car trilogy for pictures, diagrams, and histories of 
the Q's distinctive equipment. 

  Jonathan

  --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, "Dustin" <dholschuh@...> wrote:
  >
  > Does anyone out there if mixed trains on Q were all the same.I know trains 
92 & 93 on the Sterling Denrock branch were mixed.I'm assuming the passengers 
were accomadated on the caboose.But were there other mixed trains that ran with 
a baggage car or maybe a combine then a caboose.
  > 
  > Dustin Holschuh
  > Rock Falls,Il
  >

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