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Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q....combination cars

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Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q....combination cars
From: Norm Metcalf <n.metcalf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:09:52 -0600
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HOL WAGNER wrote:
> Norm:
>  
> My response:
>  
> Combines 3530-3538 were also conversions, completed by the Q at Aurora 
> for mixed train service in 1946-48 from a group of 4400-series chair 
> cars and 5900-series coaches that had originally been built by AC&F in 
> 1903-04, then were steel sheathed by Pullman in 1924.
> Hol Wagner
> 
>     >     *Subject:* Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q....combination cars
> 
>     Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com <mailto:Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com> wrote:
>      > Charlie et al
>      >
>      > At the risk of being confirmed as?certificably unknowledgable
>     I'll risk a tentatative contradiction to your assertion that the Q
>     never puchased combine cars specifically for branchline service.
>      >
>      > There was a series..I think there were 8-10 cars in it including
>     the 3537 which ran on the Villisca-Corning branch for many years was
>     included in that series...These cars were not equipped with steam
>     lines nor electric lights or other electrical "appurtenances".? They
>     came from the "factory" equipped with coal stoves and Aladin (sp)
>     kerosene lights...The had steel plates at each end rather than gates
>     and open vestibules with no "trap" arrangements.? These cars were
>     all steel and equipped with 6 wheel trucks.? And, IIRC were puchased
>     specifically for mixed train service.?? Jim Christen and I rode the
>     3537 at least once a year from 1949-1958 between Villisca and
>     Corning on trains 94 and 93.
>      >
>      > I believe that Mike Spoor commented on this series of cars as per
>     above in one of his "color pictorial"? books.
>      >
>      > Maybe I'll look it up....and again maybe I'll just wait for
>     someone else to offer comments pro or con.
>      >
>      > Pete
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net <mailto:cvlk@comcast.net>>
>      > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
>      > Sent: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
>      > Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > Jonathan-
>      > An excellent treatsie...
>      > .....but I would differ with you on one fine point.....
>      > The Q, unlike other roads, really didn't build any cars new for
>     Branchline service.
>      > For example, the "shorty" steel combines, which were rebuilt for
>     branchline service, were RPOs built right before the Post Office put
>     mandatory standards in place for Mail Cars.... rendering the almost
>     brand-new cars unsuited for their intended use. They got rebuilt (a
>     couple of times?) into baggage and RPO/Combine passenger cars and
>     because of their size were used in local and branchline mixed train
>     service.
>      > Same thing with wooden cars. I'd say that the Drovers Waycars
>     were the only purpose-built cars that got used in branchline service
>     (and I am not talking about the Branchline Combine Waycars here... I
>     mean the 30' Waycars that were fitted out with extra bunks for
>     drovers service). The Q rebuilt older coaches and combines with
>     Cupolas and had several styles of Branchline Combine Waycars.... the
>     most known to modelers being the one that Bernie Corbin provided a
>     picture of that ran in Model Railroader in the mid 50's.... (I think
>     it accompanied an article on kitbashing an Ambroid combine into
>     one). These were the CW-7s of 1913. But there were earlier types,
>     some of which survived to be photographed that had the old reverse
>     curve small cupola .... and there were probably even earlier ones
>     that didn't get photographed.
>      > Early on some waycars had side doors and some passenger seats,
>     and very late in the game a few were fitted out with a baggage door
>     and some walkover seats for branchline passengers.
>      > The Q was a very... err.. frugal... railroad and nothing was ever
>     wasted... and has been pointed out, the branchline mixed trains got
>     the hand-me-downs.... in motive power and passenger carrying cars.
>      > Charlie Vlk
>      >
>      > ----- Original Message -----
>      > From: Duncan Cameron
>      > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
>      > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:34 AM
>      > Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q
>      >
>      > Jonathan,
>      > Very well done. Brief and very helpful to a modeller.
>      > The train I'm modelling on the old Keokuk and Western in 1962-63
>     will be pulled by an NW2, includes a variety of freight equipment
>     and ultimately will have a kit-bashed model of a Q branchline
>     combine as showed in the Freight and Colour guide. A good picture of
>     a similar train is in Mike Spoor's In Colour volume 3.
>      > Duncan Cameron
>      >
>      > ----- Original Message -----
>      > From: bigbearoak
>      > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
>      > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:51 PM
>      > Subject: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q
>      >
>      > Until I read these postings, I hadn't realized to what extent the
>     character of the Burlington was expressed in its mixed trains - much
>     as it was in the distinctive qualities of its steam engines or
>     passenger equipment.
>      >
>      > As the various postings indicate, the Q ran a variety of mixed
>     train types. That in itself is no surprise; as a general rule on US
>     railroads, there's probably no other kind of train where you'd see
>     greater variety, even on trains from the same railroad. But the
>     'mix' of mixed trains on the Burlington wasn't random or a
>     hodge-podge of components. There was a definite evolution of
>     characteristic consists - which is of interest if, say, you are
>     trying to model a mixed train for a particular era.
>      >
>      > Early on, these branchline trains looked very much like the
>     mixeds on any US shortline or branchline - a smaller, older engine
>     relegated to the lighter track and traffic of a feeder line, pulling
>     a short string of cars trailed by a wooden combine or maybe a
>     drover's caboose. There were also a handful of shorty passenger
>     cars, both wood and steel, built for branchline service, during the
>     early part of the 20th c. Motive power varied, but this service was,
>     on many divisions, the last niche for the railroad's Class "A"
>     4-4-0s, what justified their rebuilding and continued service
>     through the 1920s. This form of mixed train would have been fairly
>     typical from, say, the 1904 renumbering to the 1928 relettering. In
>     a few areas, such trains persisted much longer, through the
>     Depression and WW II into the 1950s. You could model this type of
>     train in HO using a trusty NPP K-2 4-6-0, a LaBelle or Railway
>     Classics drover's caboose, and period freight cars of your choice.
>     The drover's
>     caboose could be replaced by a NKP shorty combine (CF-7). And in
>     some regions, an extra express reefer or cream car would be a
>     plausible addition.
>      >
>      > In the late 1920s and early '30s, economic and technological
>     changes altered the appearance and consist of this traditional mixed
>     train on most of the Burlington's branchlines. The rise of internal
>     combustion technology prompted the railroad to retire its aging
>     fleet of Class "A" Americans. The steamers were 35-40 years old by
>     then and having to haul freight cars considerably heavier than they
>     were designed to. Declining traffic and the frugality of the
>     railroad had allowed them to keep working branchline mixeds well
>     into the 1920s, but when gas-electrics appeared, the railroad
>     quickly replaced them with the internal combustion units. The
>     gas-electrics could haul a few freight cars, but normally they
>     operated with just a single trailer car - sometimes a baggage-RPO,
>     sometimes a combine, sometimes a coach, but almost always an older,
>     wooden car (saved fuel, and in truth, the gas-electrics weren't that
>     powerful). When traffic warranted, a steam engine would replace the
>     gas-el
>     ectric. Ten wheelers were common, but Atlantics, Pacifics, moguls
>     and prairies might be used, depending on topography, tonnage, and era.
>      >
>      > Another set of changes occurred after World War II, the result of
>     further retirement of old equipment and changing traffic patterns.
>     By this time, the oldest, wooden passenger cars were wearing out, as
>     were some of the old gas-electrics. Declining traffic led to the
>     abandonment of some routes and trains, resulting in a surplus of
>     both gas electrics and steel passenger cars. These now became the
>     main source of passenger equipment on branchline trains. Some
>     coaches were used as-is, some were converted into combines. Some
>     gas-electrics, with motors removed also were converted to combines.
>     You can see various examples on the Washington, IA branch and the
>     Sterling-Cheyenne line, where an SW-1 or NW-2 came in as the worthy
>     successor to an Atlantic or Ten-Wheeler, or in the case of the
>     Sterling line a gas-electric. Center cabs were also used as motive
>     power on some branches. As for modeling, you could use a Branchline
>     passenger coach as a stand-in for a 6100-series coach, or use t
>     he real thing from NKP or Aurora. And there are many kit-bashing
>     possibilities for unique branchline cars the Q cannibalized out of
>     its own equipment. Throwing in an express car or three - either the
>     older wooden express reefers or the newer BE-1 troop sleeper
>     rebuilds - would be plausible for some lines.
>      >
>      > A different solution was developed where passenger traffic was
>     light and/or grades heavy, as on the Deadwood, SD branch. There, a
>     standard way car was modified with extra seats and side door, with
>     the train hauled by a pair of SD-9s. Again, models are available for
>     both the front and rear end. I'm sure there were lots of other lines
>     where the occasional passenger was accommodated in an unmodified waycar.
>      >
>      > Hope this pocket history is somewhat clarifying. Various
>     Burlington Bulletins have good pictures of CB&Q mixed trains,
>     especially BB 30 on Washington, IA. Also see Jones and Coleman's
>     book on the Sterling branch and various South Platte Press
>     publications on different Mid-western branhes; more pictures are
>     scattered through the color books of Mike Spoor and Al Holck, and
>     check the Otto Perry archive at the Denver Public Library - and of
>     course Bill Glick's comprehensive passenger car trilogy for
>     pictures, diagrams, and histories of the Q's distinctive equipment.
>      >
>      > Jonathan
>      >
>      > --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>, "Dustin"
>     <dholschuh@...> wrote:
>      >> Does anyone out there if mixed trains on Q were all the same.I
>     know trains 92 & 93 on the Sterling Denrock branch were mixed.I'm
>     assuming the passengers were accomadated on the caboose.But were
>     there other mixed trains that ran with a baggage car or maybe a
>     combine then a caboose.
>      >>
>      >> Dustin Holschuh
>      >> Rock Falls,Il
>      >>



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