HOL WAGNER wrote:
> Norm:
>
> My response:
>
> Combines 3530-3538 were also conversions, completed by the Q at Aurora
> for mixed train service in 1946-48 from a group of 4400-series chair
> cars and 5900-series coaches that had originally been built by AC&F in
> 1903-04, then were steel sheathed by Pullman in 1924.
> Hol Wagner
>
> > *Subject:* Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q....combination cars
>
> Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com <mailto:Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com> wrote:
> > Charlie et al
> >
> > At the risk of being confirmed as?certificably unknowledgable
> I'll risk a tentatative contradiction to your assertion that the Q
> never puchased combine cars specifically for branchline service.
> >
> > There was a series..I think there were 8-10 cars in it including
> the 3537 which ran on the Villisca-Corning branch for many years was
> included in that series...These cars were not equipped with steam
> lines nor electric lights or other electrical "appurtenances".? They
> came from the "factory" equipped with coal stoves and Aladin (sp)
> kerosene lights...The had steel plates at each end rather than gates
> and open vestibules with no "trap" arrangements.? These cars were
> all steel and equipped with 6 wheel trucks.? And, IIRC were puchased
> specifically for mixed train service.?? Jim Christen and I rode the
> 3537 at least once a year from 1949-1958 between Villisca and
> Corning on trains 94 and 93.
> >
> > I believe that Mike Spoor commented on this series of cars as per
> above in one of his "color pictorial"? books.
> >
> > Maybe I'll look it up....and again maybe I'll just wait for
> someone else to offer comments pro or con.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net <mailto:cvlk@comcast.net>>
> > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:01 pm
> > Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jonathan-
> > An excellent treatsie...
> > .....but I would differ with you on one fine point.....
> > The Q, unlike other roads, really didn't build any cars new for
> Branchline service.
> > For example, the "shorty" steel combines, which were rebuilt for
> branchline service, were RPOs built right before the Post Office put
> mandatory standards in place for Mail Cars.... rendering the almost
> brand-new cars unsuited for their intended use. They got rebuilt (a
> couple of times?) into baggage and RPO/Combine passenger cars and
> because of their size were used in local and branchline mixed train
> service.
> > Same thing with wooden cars. I'd say that the Drovers Waycars
> were the only purpose-built cars that got used in branchline service
> (and I am not talking about the Branchline Combine Waycars here... I
> mean the 30' Waycars that were fitted out with extra bunks for
> drovers service). The Q rebuilt older coaches and combines with
> Cupolas and had several styles of Branchline Combine Waycars.... the
> most known to modelers being the one that Bernie Corbin provided a
> picture of that ran in Model Railroader in the mid 50's.... (I think
> it accompanied an article on kitbashing an Ambroid combine into
> one). These were the CW-7s of 1913. But there were earlier types,
> some of which survived to be photographed that had the old reverse
> curve small cupola .... and there were probably even earlier ones
> that didn't get photographed.
> > Early on some waycars had side doors and some passenger seats,
> and very late in the game a few were fitted out with a baggage door
> and some walkover seats for branchline passengers.
> > The Q was a very... err.. frugal... railroad and nothing was ever
> wasted... and has been pointed out, the branchline mixed trains got
> the hand-me-downs.... in motive power and passenger carrying cars.
> > Charlie Vlk
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Duncan Cameron
> > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q
> >
> > Jonathan,
> > Very well done. Brief and very helpful to a modeller.
> > The train I'm modelling on the old Keokuk and Western in 1962-63
> will be pulled by an NW2, includes a variety of freight equipment
> and ultimately will have a kit-bashed model of a Q branchline
> combine as showed in the Freight and Colour guide. A good picture of
> a similar train is in Mike Spoor's In Colour volume 3.
> > Duncan Cameron
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: bigbearoak
> > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 12:51 PM
> > Subject: [CBQ] Re: Mixed trains on the Q
> >
> > Until I read these postings, I hadn't realized to what extent the
> character of the Burlington was expressed in its mixed trains - much
> as it was in the distinctive qualities of its steam engines or
> passenger equipment.
> >
> > As the various postings indicate, the Q ran a variety of mixed
> train types. That in itself is no surprise; as a general rule on US
> railroads, there's probably no other kind of train where you'd see
> greater variety, even on trains from the same railroad. But the
> 'mix' of mixed trains on the Burlington wasn't random or a
> hodge-podge of components. There was a definite evolution of
> characteristic consists - which is of interest if, say, you are
> trying to model a mixed train for a particular era.
> >
> > Early on, these branchline trains looked very much like the
> mixeds on any US shortline or branchline - a smaller, older engine
> relegated to the lighter track and traffic of a feeder line, pulling
> a short string of cars trailed by a wooden combine or maybe a
> drover's caboose. There were also a handful of shorty passenger
> cars, both wood and steel, built for branchline service, during the
> early part of the 20th c. Motive power varied, but this service was,
> on many divisions, the last niche for the railroad's Class "A"
> 4-4-0s, what justified their rebuilding and continued service
> through the 1920s. This form of mixed train would have been fairly
> typical from, say, the 1904 renumbering to the 1928 relettering. In
> a few areas, such trains persisted much longer, through the
> Depression and WW II into the 1950s. You could model this type of
> train in HO using a trusty NPP K-2 4-6-0, a LaBelle or Railway
> Classics drover's caboose, and period freight cars of your choice.
> The drover's
> caboose could be replaced by a NKP shorty combine (CF-7). And in
> some regions, an extra express reefer or cream car would be a
> plausible addition.
> >
> > In the late 1920s and early '30s, economic and technological
> changes altered the appearance and consist of this traditional mixed
> train on most of the Burlington's branchlines. The rise of internal
> combustion technology prompted the railroad to retire its aging
> fleet of Class "A" Americans. The steamers were 35-40 years old by
> then and having to haul freight cars considerably heavier than they
> were designed to. Declining traffic and the frugality of the
> railroad had allowed them to keep working branchline mixeds well
> into the 1920s, but when gas-electrics appeared, the railroad
> quickly replaced them with the internal combustion units. The
> gas-electrics could haul a few freight cars, but normally they
> operated with just a single trailer car - sometimes a baggage-RPO,
> sometimes a combine, sometimes a coach, but almost always an older,
> wooden car (saved fuel, and in truth, the gas-electrics weren't that
> powerful). When traffic warranted, a steam engine would replace the
> gas-el
> ectric. Ten wheelers were common, but Atlantics, Pacifics, moguls
> and prairies might be used, depending on topography, tonnage, and era.
> >
> > Another set of changes occurred after World War II, the result of
> further retirement of old equipment and changing traffic patterns.
> By this time, the oldest, wooden passenger cars were wearing out, as
> were some of the old gas-electrics. Declining traffic led to the
> abandonment of some routes and trains, resulting in a surplus of
> both gas electrics and steel passenger cars. These now became the
> main source of passenger equipment on branchline trains. Some
> coaches were used as-is, some were converted into combines. Some
> gas-electrics, with motors removed also were converted to combines.
> You can see various examples on the Washington, IA branch and the
> Sterling-Cheyenne line, where an SW-1 or NW-2 came in as the worthy
> successor to an Atlantic or Ten-Wheeler, or in the case of the
> Sterling line a gas-electric. Center cabs were also used as motive
> power on some branches. As for modeling, you could use a Branchline
> passenger coach as a stand-in for a 6100-series coach, or use t
> he real thing from NKP or Aurora. And there are many kit-bashing
> possibilities for unique branchline cars the Q cannibalized out of
> its own equipment. Throwing in an express car or three - either the
> older wooden express reefers or the newer BE-1 troop sleeper
> rebuilds - would be plausible for some lines.
> >
> > A different solution was developed where passenger traffic was
> light and/or grades heavy, as on the Deadwood, SD branch. There, a
> standard way car was modified with extra seats and side door, with
> the train hauled by a pair of SD-9s. Again, models are available for
> both the front and rear end. I'm sure there were lots of other lines
> where the occasional passenger was accommodated in an unmodified waycar.
> >
> > Hope this pocket history is somewhat clarifying. Various
> Burlington Bulletins have good pictures of CB&Q mixed trains,
> especially BB 30 on Washington, IA. Also see Jones and Coleman's
> book on the Sterling branch and various South Platte Press
> publications on different Mid-western branhes; more pictures are
> scattered through the color books of Mike Spoor and Al Holck, and
> check the Otto Perry archive at the Denver Public Library - and of
> course Bill Glick's comprehensive passenger car trilogy for
> pictures, diagrams, and histories of the Q's distinctive equipment.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>, "Dustin"
> <dholschuh@...> wrote:
> >> Does anyone out there if mixed trains on Q were all the same.I
> know trains 92 & 93 on the Sterling Denrock branch were mixed.I'm
> assuming the passengers were accomadated on the caboose.But were
> there other mixed trains that ran with a baggage car or maybe a
> combine then a caboose.
> >>
> >> Dustin Holschuh
> >> Rock Falls,Il
> >>
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