BRHSLIST
[Top] [All Lists]

RE: [CBQ] Double Heading Steam

To: "CBQ@yahoogroups.com" <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Double Heading Steam
From: Ray bedard <tczephyr@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:57:09 -0700
Delivered-to: archives@nauer.org
Delivered-to: mailing list CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1245333452; bh=CqiKx0OhYfxGHzGbZ9PqcUvBz7pRkm67U+mS6z1UPGI=; h=Received:Received:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:Message-ID:To:Importance:In-Reply-To:References:X-OriginalArrivalTime:X-Originating-IP:X-eGroups-Msg-Info:From:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:MIME-Version:Mailing-List:Delivered-To:List-Id:Precedence:List-Unsubscribe:Date:Subject:Reply-To:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=mra3R8SnAKnA0oW+1Q3HsZFX2q0kIYiczGD+IgBv69FymTFdwGN+bi4mWT/VjQsIPbM9noSLtCRnq6cM4lgNybUcbjoR1FvUPqMg7Gr0X7hNXz5U6DHXdqDR6+9k2lzL
Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=QQ0QQlTqj/jhD9BVUZtnwqhARCYNKxGRoJYhwDTOoKgQ6AZFE7sbtzYTYqGzEPmbiGDVeaVMiqcd7C0OOnyHOVJyFtKt8y5qprGvJYVNQ55NBtsELJKAe/zp+E4cohxp;
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <8CBBDD9B5AEB745-A98-1654@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
List-id: <CBQ.yahoogroups.com>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Mailing-list: list CBQ@yahoogroups.com; contact CBQ-owner@yahoogroups.com
References: <BDB2E0B2C0434A92B28EFD869D7385D5@russellstrodtz><h1aop4+68b7@eGroups.com> <BAY117-W27A7921DAB0BD2FB0BA672D43C0@phx.gbl> <8CBBDADB04A6E5B-C60-D30@webmail-mh31.sysops.aol.com> <8CBBDD9B5AEB745-A98-1654@webmail-md04.sysops.aol.com>
Reply-to: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sender: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Pete,

 

Thanks for the get detailed information. You left nothing unanswered. 

 

I appreciate yours and everyone elses responses.

 

Ray

 

 

 
> To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
> From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:12:13 -0400
> Subject: Re: [CBQ] Double Heading Steam
> 
> All right let's have a try at the details of steam double heading and answer 
> some of the specific questions originally asked on this post.
> What I'm positing here is what I recall from some of the old accounts in 
> RAILROAD and other True tales.
> 
> Let's start with a true "double header"...ie both engines on the head end of 
> the train.
> Some basics..The engineer on the lead engine had control of the train..He 
> handled the air and set the speed.  Each locomotive has a "cutout cock".  
> This in effect disables the air brakes on an engine...The second engineer 
> closes his cutout cock which isolates his brake valve and disconnects his air 
> pump and main reservoir from supplying air to the trainline.  The lead 
> engineer does all of the train braking.
> The brakes on the second locomotive continue to be operative, but just like 
> any other car in the train they are under the control of the engineer on the 
> lead engine.  The engineer on that second engine has no control over any 
> braking...either on his own engine or of the train.
> 
> When the train is ready to move the lead engineer whistles off and opens his 
> throttle and initially has the whole load..As soon as the train begins to 
> move the second engineer opens his throttle and picks up his share of the 
> load...From there on the two engines work together.  There were no "load 
> meters" or any other method of determining how much of the load each engine 
> is pulling..It's strictly a "seat of the pants" operation..The old head 
> engineers could indeed "
> feel" what their engine was doing and would thereby determine their proper 
> throttle and Johnson bar (reverse lever) settings.  
> 
> When it was time to slow down or stop the lead engineer "shut off" and/or set 
> the air on the train..when the second engineer saw or felt this happening he 
> made his own adjustments to throttle and cut off.  He had no control over the 
> braking of the train.   While whistle signals were used when necessary, 
> normally the communication was by hand signal since the crews could see each 
> other.
> 
> Now let's assume a situation where the "helper" is on the rear end.  There 
> was a real art to getting a train started.  Too much power or lack of power 
> by the rear helper could tear the train in two or cause it to buckle.  Here's 
> my understanding as to how it was done...Remember no radios and engines too 
> far apart to see each other.
> 
> When the train was ready to go the engine on the head end would set the air 
> on the train...When this was done the rear engineer would put his Johnson bar 
> down in the corner and open the trottle (with the air still set on the 
> train).  This would fill the cylinders with steam and the engine was against 
> the end of the train and technically stalled.  Just like a car with an 
> automatic transmission with the wheels blocked.  
> 
> The lead engi;neer, when he was ready would release the air on the train.  As 
> the train brakes released the helper would begin to move, shoving in the 
> slack and thus getting20the train under way...When the lead engineer felt the 
> slack coming in he opened his throttle to take up the load on the head end 
> and, if everybody did everything right, the train would get under way with no 
> undue slack action.  As both engines got ahold of their share of the load the 
> train would be brought up to track speed or whatever speed the load would 
> permit.  In this case the initial preparations and initial moves would be 
> coordinated by a series of whistle signals.
> 
> As to the placement of the waycar and the rear helper...Some roads required 
> the waycar to be behind the helper, but some roads would allow the helper to 
> shove against the waycar..Other roads would allow the helper behind the 
> waycar, but would not permit the rear end crew to occupy the waycar..they had 
> to ride the cab of the helper.   I recall one tale where the crew was riding 
> on top of the waycar related that they could feel the waycar roof "heave" up 
> and down with each exhaust stroke of the helper....When he waycar was behind 
> the helper it required an extra move to remove the helper and get the waycar 
> back on the train..Their was usually a "helper stub" at the top of the hill 
> at the end of a helper district...Crews got pretty adept at making a "drop" 
> of the helper engine and getting the waycar back on the train "on the 
> fly"...Today's safety police would have a combined heart attack, apoplexy and 
> stroke if they saw this kind of move being made.
> 
> As to passenger trains requiring helpers
> they were almost always double headed  (both engines on the head end)..Most 
> roads considered shoving on a passenger train as to dangerous besides causing 
> an "uncomfortable" ride on the coaches near the rear end of the train.
> 
> Additional note...Where the rear end helper was behind the waycar some roads 
> required that the air be connected between the waycar and the helper..Thus if 
> the helper became uncoupled from the train the air would set on both the 
> train and the helper.  The crews didn't like this arrangment...The perferred 
> arrangment was that the angle cock on the rear end of the waycar was closed 
> and the air hose not connected...Thus when it was time for the helper to be 
> dropped off  all that was necessary was that the rear brakeman on the waycar 
> would reach down and "pull the pin"...This was, of course, after the helper 
> shoved in the slack between his engine and the waycar..Thus the helper could 
> be cut off on the fly and a stop avoided.
> 
> I'll take questions or comments.....If I don't know the answer....I'll do 
> just like I always do...Make it up...
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com
> To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 4:57 pm
> Subject: Re: [CBQ] Double Heading Steam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ray...I'm not an engineer...let alone a steam engineer....but I've read quite 
> a few of the old RAILROAD MAGAZINES and have some idea of the procedures 
> used....I don't have time now, but later this evening I'll discourse a bit 
> and then some of those guys with real
> experience like Karl and Bob Campbell can come along and "straighten things 
> out".
> 
> Pete
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray bedard <tczephyr@hotmail.com>
> To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wed, Jun 17, 2009 9:39 am
> Subject: [CBQ] Double Heading Steam
> 
> have always wondered how the railroads, I mean the engineers & firemen, 
> perated a double header. I know that each engineer operates his engine 
> separate 
> rom the other engineer, but how did they coordinate the start up, increases 
> and 
> ecreases in speed and stopping? 
> 
> Were there some kind of signals between engineers to let them know when 
> changes 
> n speed were being done. How did they know that one engine was, say, running 
> at 
> 0 mph and the other would match that. I have never seen anything about this 
> in 
> ny mags.
> 
> I am more curious about this when the 2nd engine was at the rear of the 
> train. 
> f not coordinated properly, the pusher could easily run the consist into the 
> ead engine causing a derailment.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ray Bedard
> San Jose CA
> 
> __________________________________________________________
> ing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.
> ttp://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core
> _tagline_local_1x1
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> ------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> Individual Email | Traditional
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:CBQ-digest@yahoogroups.com 
    mailto:CBQ-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>