Re: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

["jpslhedgpeth via groups.io" <jpslhedgpeth=aol.com@groups.io>]

Just "all of a sudden"...that's the way most of my railroad stories pop into my head...I just sat down here and was reading about the decline of  the need for Drovers since the packing houses started in the late 50's to move closer to "where the product was" and the need for Drovers to accompany their "product" for fairly long distance were no longer needed.  

And this thinking about men accompanying their "product" to market brought in to my mine the  matter of  The  "BANANNA MESSENGER"  anybody on here remember seeing any of these guys prowling around the yard in the dark.?     I'm not in the "frame of mind" to write about this subject right now, but it just "popped up"   and you ain't heard the last of me on the subject.

Anybody want to jump in with questions comments regarding said subject....I don't care whether anybody does or "don't". I've had a thought about a subject I don't think I've heard discussed on here.  

BANANNA MESSENGER story  (maybe STORIES" comin up soon....

Pete  

-----Original Message-----
From: Louis Zadnichek via groups.io <LZadnichek=aol.com@groups.io>
To: cbq@groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2021 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

January 25, 2021

 

Charlie - Appreciate the additional information - Louis

 

In a message dated 1/24/2021 6:07:26 PM Central Standard Time, cvlk@comcast.net writes:

 

A “boarding car” was fitted out for the sleeping and feeding of company personnel.   It likely had arrangements for the individuals to secure their personal property and likely  had fixed bunks as the cars weren’t intended to be day coaches.

Drovers were riding on a ticket with their animals and were probably treated as at least 2^nd class passengers.   I don’t know if the passenger cars used in drovers service were equipped with sections. 

As the meat processing industry became decentralized the need for long distance hauling of animals decreased.  I don’t know if the drovers accompanied animals after some point.   Likely not after WWII???

The 1898-1910 Roster lists:

 

The 209365 car in question was 45’ long and CAPY was 60,000 #   

The 214239 does not show up on the post-1910 Douda roster:

Boarding Cars

CB&Q                    A-J

CB&Q                    90100-90109       CB8Q 90106 to 210956                  CB&Q 90108 to 210767

B&MR                   A1-A36                 B&MR A1 to CB&Q 211239           B&MR  A6 to CB&Q 211230         B&MR A38 to CB&Q 211239                     

H&StJ                    047

H&StJ                    052

H&StJ                    2057

H&StJ                    2433

KCStJ&CB            0107-0117

StLK&NW            077-079

StLK&NW            228, 256, 354,

                                602, 612

 

Charlie Vlk

 

From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of Louis Zadnichek via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2021 5:18 PM
To: cbq@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

 

January 23, 2021

 

Charlie - Could these "boarding cars" have been also used as "drovers cars," or is that unlikely in your educated opinion?

 

At 30 net tons +/-, these are very heavy wood cars for their intended purpose, at least in my opinion. Why so heavy? - Louis

 

Louis Zadnichek II

Fairhope, AL

 

In a message dated 1/23/2021 5:02:56 PM Central Standard Time, cvlk@comcast.net writes:

 

All

Here is a drawing of a Boarding Car that I was talking about.  

The 209365 car in question and the 214239 rode on some version of the No.2 passenger car truck which had a longer wheelbase than the Waycar No. 7 truck.  They shared many components at least in overall design…I haven’t compared the casting numbers on drawings to see if the journal pedestals, spring seats, etc. were the same.  There was also a family of six wheel trucks that were of similar design.   The No. 7 truck was used on many passenger cars as well as waycars.

Attached is a cropped view of CB&Q #5350 which was a coach converted to a partially open air observation car for use in the Black Hills.   It has an almost identical reinforced underframe as the 205365.

A car losing its clerestory in a rebuilding would not be out of the ordinary.   The car may have been burned (not uncommon) and the frame rebuilt with a simple arched waycar-style roof rather than the unnecessary more complicated original clerestory style.

The windows being “waycar” on a car is just because the CB&Q tried to standardize on glass sizes and millwork stock. (for example, the end windows on waycars and drovers waycars were the same sash as the side windows….the “Saloon” had a standard 4-window side fixed upper sash and the other end windows were the regular lower sash.

Three window cars had the same glass in the single sash upper and lower and came in two different sizes…one overall larger than the other.

I’ve never measured any MOW equipment but their windows may have used one of the waycar glass sizes but in different multiples.  The 210572 attached seems to have standard waycar size glass (smaller 3 window type) in one window arranged in 2 2over2 configuration with similar height but narrower sash which is common to MOW cars.

Yet another item to be put on the research list!!!

Charlie Vlk

 

 

 

 

From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of Rupert Gamlen
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2021 3:23 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

 

Louis

I wondered at first if this was converted from a coach or baggage car but the lack of a clerestory roof makes that unlikely. Conversion from a waycar, including the removal of the cupola, seems possible especially as it appears to be riding on wood beam trucks of the type used for waycars.

Rupert

 

From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of Louis Zadnichek via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 23 January 2021 1:25 pm
To: cbq@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

 

January 22, 2021

 

Rupert - Yes, that must be the road number.  I can make out the "2" and the "5."  I just found two more images in the Flickr Gallery of "stretched" 211239 that lacks a cupola. It has seven windows compared to 209365 that has five windows. Plus, it doesn't look to be as heavily constructed. I've attached the color image:

 

 

Unless Charlie says different, I'd assume 211239 was also originally constructed for use as a drovers car.  It lasted long enough to be painted orange and used as a MOW camp car. Unfortunately, no other data came with the image. The Pullman tourist cars were a cut above these drovers cars - Louis

 

In a message dated 1/22/2021 5:42:44 PM Central Standard Time, gamlenz@hotmail.com writes:

 

 

 

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