Re: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

["Louis Zadnichek via groups.io" <LZadnichek=aol.com@groups.io>]

January 22, 2021

 

Charlie - I've attached an image from the BRHS Flickr Gallery showing an "elongated" way car in use on a wreck train in 1940 near Princeton, IL:

 

 

Could this car have been originally constructed for use as a dover's car? Somewhere else in the Flickr Gallery there's another image of a near-identical car, except it does not have a cupola.

 

I'll also comment on Dave's second paragraph:

 

"For a train called a fast freight, this particular train stopped in Lincoln, then again in Ashland, and again in Chalco, then in Omaha. Why so many stops? I would have thought a fast freight would have been straight through to a destination."

 

Then, as now, you can't always believe everything you read in the newspapers.  The freight train may've stopped in Lincoln, Ashland and Chalco to pick-up additional loaded stock cars.  Calling it a fast freight may've been a bit of editorializing on the part of the reporter.

 

Lincoln was a division point where locomotives and crews would've been changed regardless, not to mention additional stock cars being added to the consist.  Plus, the reason for stopping at Chalco (which is today a suburb of Omaha) might've been for the shooting itself. 

 

Alcohol and firearms were not permitted on dovers cars, but I sincerely doubt the conductor and rear brakemen would've cared to "pat down" some drunken obnoxious cow boy.... If worse came to worse, the unarmed train crew could always use an oak brake staff.

 

I rather imagine that the crews left the cow boys to police themselves as there would've been a foreman in every group charged with keeping the cow boys in line. The riotous drunks would sleep off their booze and wake-up with massive headaches cured with black coffee.

 

I'm doing a lot of speculating here, but I'm more inclined to think this train was more of a local picking-up and setting-off than a through stock train.  That being said, since the newspaper doesn't give any details of the shooting itself, we'll probably never know just what occurred - Louis

 

Louis Zadnichek II

Fairhope, AL

 

In a message dated 1/22/2021 2:37:13 PM Central Standard Time, cvlk@comcast.net writes:

 

All-

 

On the CB&Q waycars were built or fit out as “drovers” cars.  Externally they were the same as regular waycars.

The Drovers Car of 1907 had the following accommodations:

1     22” deep x 2’9” wide rear facing seat in back of the cupola base opposite the dry hopper

2     reversable seats in the cupola with conductors desk both sides

1. 22” deep 9’- 1 ¾” long  padded bench across from stove R

1. 22” deep x 2’9” wide rear facing seat at stove L

2     22” deep 6’-0” long padded bench to form lower berth with single fold down 2’-8 ½” x 6’-0” upper berth at L & R car middle.

2. 2 X  22” deep x 2’9” wide facing seats to form lower berth with single fold down 2’-8 ½” x 6’-0” upper berth at L & R car front.

Depending on how the sleeping accommodations were assigned it looks like berths could hold 9.   An additional two wide seats would up the total to 11.  If occupants doubled up in the berths another four or five could sleep.  This total does not include the seats in the cupola or in the Dry Hopper Saloon although with a dozen or so occupants that would not be a place to dwell for long!

 

The Way Car of 1907 had a similar floor plan but the stove was located one window more towards the front with

1. 22” deep x 2’9” wide rear facing seat in back of the cupola base opposite the dry hopper

2      reversable seats in the cupola with conductors desk both sides

3. 21” deep 7’- 2 ¼” long  padded bench across from stove running entire side R

1     22” deep x 5-’9 1/2” long  padded bench from rear to stove L

2     22” deep x 4’ 9 1/2” long  padded bench from stove to front L

A total of 5 berths all lowers.

 

I’ve only seen construction drawings for “four window” 30’ waycars and drovers cars.  I imagine that some “three window” 28’ cars were fitted out in a similar manner. Passenger cars were also fitted out for drovers service and may also have had berths…I have not studied that aspect…..the answer might be in the Waycar Book.

 

By the way, I often see Model Railroaders refer to any car equipped with a cupola and side doors as a “drovers car”.  I don’t think the railroads used this definition and more likely they would be termed “combination” or “branchline” caboose / waycar and they more likely would have day coach seats for passengers and the side doors were for less than carload freight and express rather than cowboys and their saddles and tack.

 

While I have seen references to “Stock Trains” going back to the 1860s to the early 1910s in wreck reports that I have gathered in my Aurora and Chicago Division research, I don’t recall having run across any trains labeled as “Fast Freight” although perhaps a study of employee timetables would yield some trains so designated.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

 

From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Nebelsick
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 12:28 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

 

Awesome contribution J Pete!

Tom Nebelsick

On Jan 22, 2021, at 11:53 AM, jpslhedgpeth via groups.io <jpslhedgpeth=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

 

Dave..Your comment (sometimes called a STOCK TRAIN) answers your question regarding passengers....Those passengers riding on that or any other train carrying 'stock" were referred to as  'DROVERS"   ie Cowboys..They were men who were employed by the rancher who owned the stock being taken to market.  The "Livestock Contract" which was the "Contract for Carriage under which shipments of live animalsl moved.  It took the place of a standard "Bill of Lading"  Those contracts provided for the transportation of XX number of Drovers to accompany the stock moving in stock cars.  These men were responsible to "take care" of the 'Feed water and rest' arrangements and to keep a watch on the cattle.  Said "livestock contract" also provided for a "return ticket" for those men to return to the point of orgin.  

 

When just a few heads of stock were being moved those "Drovers" just rode in the Waycar..ie caboose,but in large volume shipments actual coaches, callled  "Drovers Car" were handled right ahead of the waycar for the Drovers to ride in.   Needless to say that these "vehicles" provided something "less than de luxe accomodations   and were usuallly old non AC coaches many still with stove heat.   

 

Also there were occasional  "Games of Chance" which took place in these cars as you might  suspect and there were more than occasional "fisticuffs" following the games of chance.   

 

Lots of the old RAILROAD MAGAZINE stories by authors Harry Bedwell, E S Dellinger..John Johns were replete with the antics of the "goings on" by the DROVERS.   

 

Since most of the train crews "back in the day"  Owned their Waycar and did not always welcome the.....in their opinion...uncivilized behaviour of the "Cow Hands"  

 

Thanks for the question Dave...It gave me the opportunity to "declaim" on a subject that I know a little something about.  

 

I'll be glad to "entertain further questions and/or comments regarding  DROVERS

 

Pete

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Burk <dsburkea@gmail.com>
To: cbq@groups.io <cbq@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jan 22, 2021 7:13 am
Subject: [CBQ] 1897 Chalco incident

Hello,

I have two questions about an incident that happened in Chalco, Neb. In late June of 1897. A passenger on a train referred to in news articles as the Burlington fast freight (sometimes called a stock train but that definitely had at least some boxcars) was shot during an attempted robbery as he got off the train.

 

Here are my questions:

1. If a person had a pass to ride a freight train, where would he or she ride? Would a freight train have a specific place for passengers?
2. For a train called a fast freight, this particular train stopped in Lincoln, then again in Ashland, and again in Chalco, then in Omaha. Why so many stops? I would have thought a fast freight would have been straight through to a destination.

 

Thanks for any help. I’m pretty ignorant about trains—working on true crime. Thanks!

DB

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

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