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March 4, 2019
Hol - What a treasure you are! Never knew any of this before, either. Much appreciate your countless contributions over many years to preserving CB&Q/C&S/FW&D history. Best Regards - Louis
-----Original Message-----
From: HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>
To: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Mar 4, 2019 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Guernsey/Hartville
Louis:
The C&W Southern Division continued operating well into the 1990s, and in fact the portion of the line immediately west of Trinidad was relocated for several miles when Trinidad Reservoir was built in 1978. The C&W even bought a pair of GP38-2's and
about 100 coal hoppers and ran unit coal trains over the Southern Division and the C&S-D&RGW between the principal mine and the steel mill near Pueblo. After Oregon Steel Mills bought CF&I in the 1990s and converted the Minnequa (Pueblo) mill to electric
furnaces that reprocessed scrap steel there was no longer a need for the coal so the mines were shut down. Eventually they were sold to another company that had big plans for them and brought in an SD40 or SD40-2 and rehabilitated portions of the line that
had deteriorated. But they never found a market for the coal and eventually abandoned the project and the old C&W was torn out at least a decade ago.
The Northern Division was shortened to just the Sunrise-Guernsey segment after the Q line down from Casper reached Guernsey in 1914 and gave the C&S a route through North Platte Canyon to Guernsey. The C&S and Q had been splitting the ore traffic for
years, the Q hauling its share east from Guernsey to Northport/Bridgeport, Neb., then south to Brush, Colo., and into Denver, where it was turned over to the C&S. After 1914 the C&S hauled the ore over the Q from Guernsey to Wendover, Wyo., then south through
Cheyenne and Denver to the Minnequa steel mill. The Sunrise mine shut down at the same time as the coal mines west of Trinidad after the need for ore was eliminated by the electric furnaces at the mill.
Hol
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> on behalf of Louis Zadnichek via Groups.Io <LZadnichek=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 1:33 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Guernsey/Hartville
March 3, 2019
All - Meant to say C&W Southern Division - Louis
In a message dated 3/3/2019 2:32:55 PM Central Standard Time, LZadnichek=aol.com@groups.io writes:
March 3, 2019
Norm - Perhaps, the C&W was shut down due to a strike at the time. I would've been age six or seven. May be some one else on this List can tell us when the C&S Southern
Division was torn-up, or it it's still intact. Best Regards - Louis
Louis Zadnichek II
Fairhope, AL
In a message dated 3/3/2019 2:12:59 PM Central Standard Time, normmetcalf=yahoo.com@groups.io writes:
Louis. the coal mines on the CW's Southern Division were far from played out in the 1950's. Several years ago they were still producing and may still have economic reserves...Norm
On Sunday, March 3, 2019, 01:00:37 PM MST, Louis Zadnichek via Groups.Io <LZadnichek=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
March 3, 2019
Hol - So it wasn't the CB&Q, C&S or C&NW, but rather the Colorado & Wyoming's Northern Division and their 4-4-0 No. 102. There isn't a week that goes by that I don't learn
or discover something new from this Group! Thank you for solving the mystery. Your attached image gives us a good look at C&S ore cars at the time.
I remember as a child the C&W's Southern Division as Dad was the C&S Trainmaster at Trinidad during 1952-1953. As I vaguely recall, the C&W at Trinidad was close to abandonment
since the coal mines had played out. The C&W train master loaned a speeder to Dad and he took my Mom, my younger brother Ken and me on a Sunday tour of the Southern Division. I have family snapshots taken during the trip. Best Regards - Louis
In a message dated 3/3/2019 11:44:01 AM Central Standard Time,
holpennywagner@msn.com writes:
Louis: These are both views of Colorado & Wyoming 102, an ex-UP 4-4-0 purchase by the C&S for the Colorado & Wyoming in 1902. The Colo. & Wyo., owned by the Colorado Fuel & Iron Co., built a 14-mile railroad from Hartville Junction on the C&S to Hartville
and the nearby Sunrise Mine of CF&I. It crossed the North Platte River at what was known on the C&W as Porter, and soon became the west end of Guernsey.
The C&S bought a total of three UP 4-4-0s for the C&W and they became C&W 101-103. The 101-102 were used on the C&W's Northern Division (the Hartville Jct.-Sunrise line), while the 103 worked the C&W's Southern Division between Trinidad and the CF&I coal mines
at Primero, Segundo, Tercio and Quatro west of Trinidad. C&W's Central Division was at the Pueblo (actually Bessemer, then Minnequa) steel mill on the southern edge of Pueblo.
Hol
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> on behalf of Louis Zadnichek via Groups.Io <LZadnichek=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 8:53 AM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Guernsey/Hartville
March 3, 2019
Hol - Please clarify. Were these two 4-4-0's C&NW, CB&Q or C&S? Were both images of the 102? Since the ore cars are C&S, you'd think the 4-4-0 would be C&S, too. The Corbin Book lists a 102 as a 4-4-0, but states it was off the roster by 1903. Looking
forward to your comments - Louis
-----Original Message-----
From: HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>
To: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Mar 3, 2019 7:54 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Guernsey/Hartville
Here's an earlier view of the 102 switching the mine.
Hol
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> on behalf of Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 4:15 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Guernsey/Hartville
Brian-
Doesn’t have much of a “Q” feel to anything in the photo. Looks like the tender is lettered in block lettering…might be C&NW???
Note that car 300 has a headlight mounted on one end.
Charlie Vlk
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Brian Garner
Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 3:06 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: [CBQ] Guernsey/Hartville
One more photos I am trying to identify. This one is from Wyoming but unsure if it was on the line that ran from Guernsey to the Sunrise mine or if it was used during the construction of the Guernsey Dam or the new rail line to Wendover. Wondering if this
is a CB&Q or C&S engine. Engine number looks to be 102 or 103.
Thanks,
Brian
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