April 6, 2016
Pete - This is one major reason "why" I so much enjoy occasionally posting
old photographs as they almost always elicit varied responses from Group
members. I never know what someone is going to "see" in an image that otherwise
would've escaped my notice all together. Thanks for your memories of Forest
City and Oregon, MO. Perhaps, in time, Hol will solve the riddle of where the
two OI "mystery" 4-4-0's came from. Best Regards -
Louis
In a message dated 4/6/2016 12:18:01 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
CBQ@yahoogroups.com writes:
THANKS Hol for all the info...I lived within 50
miles of Oregon all my growing up years..In fact my grandparents lived there
as well as two of my mother's sisters and their families..There was always, in
our family, lots of speculation and wonder about the OI....and here it is..and
you found it. In fact that depot was within a few blocks of where my
cousin's family and even closer to where my grandparents. lived.
I admit, now that I've seen both of the photos you have posted that I
have seen them before..I may even have them.
Isn't it interesting that one photo posted for one purpose can spark a
plethora of interest and comment on something that is almost non existent in
the original photo...If I hadn't opened up and enlarged the Q train image the
OI train in the background would never have been noticed.
It "do pay" to look carefully at everything.
Thanks again
Pete
-----Original
Message----- From: Hol Wagner holpennywagner@msn.com [CBQ]
<CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent:
Wed, Apr 6, 2016 11:01 am Subject: Re: [CBQ] Can Anyone Identify This
Image
Sorry for not deleting earlier postings, but I'm trying to keep all three
of the pertinent photos and the comments on them together.
It seems probable to me that the Oregon Interurban started operation in
1908 with one or two 4-4-0s and a coach or combine, then added the motor car
at a later date. The 1917 Annual Report of the Missouri Public Service
Commission lists the Oregon Interurban Railway under the heading, "List of
steam carriers operating in the state of Missouri under the jurisdiction of
the Public Service Commission which file tariffs with the Rate
Department."
Two brief items in the Holt County Sentinel for Friday, December
15, 1911, may provide a clue:
"Two men entered the Oregon Interurban car the other day. There was
but one vacant seat, but the man who was a little ahead, and really entitled
to it, urged the other man to take it, saying that he really preferred to
stand. 'This,' said the second man, as he sank wearily into the seat,
'is what I call a case of genuine politeness.' 'That may be what you
call it, stranger,' said the man who was standing up, 'but I call it one of
the blamedest, tenderest boils I ever carried around with me in my
life.' Moral: Sometimes people get credit for what they don't
deserve."
"Good November Business.
"Our Interurban railroad did a good business during November, handling
1,862,710 pounds of freight, of which there were 22 carload lots received and
27 carload lots forwarded: 23 of these were hogs. In addition to this it
handled 31,619 pounds of express, 1,030 gallons of cream and 1,504
passengers."
The _expression_, "entered the Oregon Interurban car," would seem to refer
to the motor car, while the fact that cars of freight were being hauled would
seem to refer to the steam-powered trains. Possibly the coach/combine
was used as a waycar on the steam trains and provided passenger service in
addition to the motor car. And the mention of 31,619 pounds of express
justifies the Adams Express Company sign on the Oregon depot.
Hol
I just checked Edmund Keilty's book, Doodlebug Country, to make
sure the Oregon Interurban was not listed among roads operating motor cars,
and he does not show it. But he missed a number of other shortlines that
had motor cars, so the omission really doesn't mean much The OI's
1908-1918 timeframe coincides perfectly with the widespread early development
of gas-mechanical and gas-electric cars, and dozens of backwater shortlines
employed such cars to cut operating costs.
As for the road's 4-4-0 or 4-4-0s, early 20th Century Burlington
locomotive dispositions are sparse, and when they do exist they only show the
date a locomotive was retired -- no real disposition is included. The
fact that the Oregon Interurban had its beginning in 1908, four years after
the consolidation of all the component lines -- including the KCStJ&CB
line the OI connected with at Forest City -- would mean whatever might have
been sold to the shortline would have carried a Q number by the time of the
sale. The locomotive in the postcard view has no distinguishing
characteristics that would allow us to definitely identify it as coming from
the Burlington, but located as the OI was with only a Q connection (no pun
intended, Dave Lotz), it does seem most likely that the locomotive or
locomotives came from the Q, though the proximity to Kansas City and St. Joe
makes many more railroads legitimate possibilities.
Hol
[Attachment(s) from Hol Wagner
included below]
The attached image from the other end of the depot at Oregon appears to
show a trolley-like motor car of some kind rather than a steam train.
Note the Adams Express Company sign on the end of the depot; that Q also used
Adams at this time.
Hol
April 5, 2016
Rick - I "think" this is the Oregon, MO, depot image that Pete is talking
about:
It shows a 4-4-0. I had the same question as you after reading Pete's
post, could the 4-4-0 shown be ex-B&MR or Q? Looks to be a pretty old
locomotive. What say the locomotive historians in our Group? Best Regards -
Louis
Pete- I have a source that
says the OI had a pair of 4-4-0s; I presume former Q (?).
What type of locomotive does your photo show?
Rick Morgan
OK guys This photo
has a hidden JEWEL OF INESTIMABLE VALUE. Look behind the
depot..between the depot and the big Number 16 on what appears to be a large
sign. There you will see a train on the OREGON INTERURBAN RAILROAD.
This RR
ran between Forest City and Oregon..3 miles as the crow flies, but about 6
via rail since the line had to go a couple of miles south, climbing the
bluffs which you see in the distance thence heading northeast toward Oregon.
This railroad only lasted from 1908 to 1918..10 years..Very very few
pictures exist. I have a single photo of the engine and one coach at
the depot in Oregon.
My
cousin grew up in Oregon and in our youth we once "walked" the line
from Oregon to Forest City. He recalls that we came upon the remains
of a trestle, but I don't remember it. The old depot stood in the
north part of Oregon until about 20 years or so ago...About 10 years ago a
fellow member of the Lincoln Railfans Club and I drove to Oregon and by
advance arrangement had a guided tour by a then 80 plus year old resident
who had personal memories of the line.
If this
image is after 1918 I'm going to be mighty embarrassed, but I'm convinced
that that is a train we're looking at behind the depot.
In
seasons of the year when the vegetation is off you can still see the old
grade running south out of Forest City, climbing the
bluff.
This is
the only photo that I have ever seen of an Oregon Interurban train at Forest
City...
Group - Thanks to everyone who
has contributed images, links and other information about the ex-Q Class H
2-6-0 types that worked out their service lives on the Wyoming Railway.
All very interesting information. I'm now inserting and
attaching an image of CB&Q No. 1151 before it was sold in 1927
to the Wyoming Central as their No. 104. The undated image shows 1151
powering a passenger train at Forest City, MO:
The 1151 was constructed at the Aurora
Shops in 1898. I'm also attaching a spreadsheet contributed by Group member
Ken Martin giving a roster of Wyoming Railway locomotives and rolling stock.
Ken said to credit the spreadsheet information to Bill Tulley. If any one
else has images of Wyoming Central 2-6-0's while they were still CB&Q
locomotives, those I would enjoy seeing. Best Regards -
Louis
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