Way to go HOL
Us old guys have a perspective that many of the "younguns" don't
have....Thanks
Pete...maybe even older than you are
-----Original Message-----
From: HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>
To: CB&Q Group <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 8:36 am
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach
ack from a weekend trip to find nearly a dozen messages on this subject, and
ou are all overlooking the obvious and often reported answer: When Zephyr
901, running as the Sam Houston Zephyr, was destroyed by fire on Dec. 19, 1944,
he Q quickly assembled a lightweight tain powered by E5-A 9909 and leased it to
he Burlingto-Rock Island for service as the Texas Zephyr. That train entered
ervice on Jan. 7, 1945, and consisted of baggage car 900, coaches 4700, 4701
nd 4712, and dining-parlor-obs car 302. The cars remained in Sam HoustonZephyr
ervice for many years, and, of course, 4712-Silver Crown was the Jim Crow
oach. It was a great improvement over the 9901, where black passengers were
orced to ride on makeshift seats in the baggage compartment.
ol
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
rom: sjl_prodigynet@yahoo.com
ate: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 07:37:42 -0700
ubject: Re: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach
The interesting thing about the diagram in the Passenger Car Diagrams book is
hat the window pattern of the car is no different than its sisters. Thus the
im Crow restrooms share a common window, suggesting to me that the
onfiguration was an afterthought.
--- On Sat, 9/24/11, rgortowski@aol.com <rgortowski@aol.com> wrote:
From: rgortowski@aol.com <rgortowski@aol.com>
ubject: Re: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach
o: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
ate: Saturday, September 24, 2011, 9:57 PM
Steven,
That has to be a mistake. In Randall's later book - "The Passenger Car Library
-
olume 1 - CB&Q" he shows that 4712 - Silver Crown - was part of a 6 car order
or 52 seat coaches. They we delivered in June of 1940, and the diagram does not
how any Jim Crow facilities. I think the C&S may have had a Jim Crow section in
streamlined car (Sam Houston Zephyr?), but I'm not sure. My brain doesn't
tray too far from the Illinois border... ;-)
Rich G.
-----Original Message-----
rom: Stephen Levine <sjl_prodigynet@yahoo.com>
o: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
ent: Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:13 pm
ubject: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach
I was looking at the plans for chair car 4712, Silver Crown, in a book of
urlington Passenger Car Diagrams published in the mid 80's by Railway
roduction Classics (David Randall's firm). The plans for this 1940 Budd car
how a partitioned Jim Crow section on its vestibule end with "Negro" men's and
omen's restrooms. This is the first time I have noticed this oddity.
Why in the world would the Burlington need a Jim Crow car? I don't think any of
he states it served had Jim Crow laws. The General Pershing Zephyr cars, which
erved Missouri, did not have Jim Crow sections.
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