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RE: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach

To: CB&Q Group <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach
From: HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 07:58:31 -0600
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Rich:
 
The partitions were still in the C&S-FW&D Texas Zephyr coaches when they were 
sent to the Q in the late 1960s.
 
Hol
 



To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
From: rgortowski@aol.com
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:52:33 -0400
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach


  



See? I knew Hol would have the answer! Of course that makes sense, with the 
9901 burning up. Do you have any idea for how long Jim Crow arrangements were 
maintained on the C&S?

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: HOL WAGNER <holpennywagner@msn.com>
To: CB&Q Group <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 8:36 am
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach

ack from a weekend trip to find nearly a dozen messages on this subject, and 
ou are all overlooking the obvious and often reported answer: When Zephyr 
901, running as the Sam Houston Zephyr, was destroyed by fire on Dec. 19, 1944, 
he Q quickly assembled a lightweight tain powered by E5-A 9909 and leased it to 
he Burlingto-Rock Island for service as the Texas Zephyr. That train entered 
ervice on Jan. 7, 1945, and consisted of baggage car 900, coaches 4700, 4701 
nd 4712, and dining-parlor-obs car 302. The cars remained in Sam HoustonZephyr 
ervice for many years, and, of course, 4712-Silver Crown was the Jim Crow 
oach. It was a great improvement over the 9901, where black passengers were 
orced to ride on makeshift seats in the baggage compartment.

ol

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
rom: sjl_prodigynet@yahoo.com
ate: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 07:37:42 -0700
ubject: Re: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach

The interesting thing about the diagram in the Passenger Car Diagrams book is 
hat the window pattern of the car is no different than its sisters. Thus the 
im Crow restrooms share a common window, suggesting to me that the 
onfiguration was an afterthought.
--- On Sat, 9/24/11, rgortowski@aol.com <rgortowski@aol.com> wrote:
From: rgortowski@aol.com <rgortowski@aol.com>
ubject: Re: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach
o: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
ate: Saturday, September 24, 2011, 9:57 PM

Steven,
That has to be a mistake. In Randall's later book - "The Passenger Car Library 
- 
olume 1 - CB&Q" he shows that 4712 - Silver Crown - was part of a 6 car order 
or 52 seat coaches. They we delivered in June of 1940, and the diagram does not 
how any Jim Crow facilities. I think the C&S may have had a Jim Crow section in 
streamlined car (Sam Houston Zephyr?), but I'm not sure. My brain doesn't 
tray too far from the Illinois border... ;-)
Rich G.
-----Original Message-----
rom: Stephen Levine <sjl_prodigynet@yahoo.com>
o: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
ent: Sat, Sep 24, 2011 9:13 pm
ubject: [CBQ] Streamlined Jim Crow Coach
I was looking at the plans for chair car 4712, Silver Crown, in a book of 
urlington Passenger Car Diagrams published in the mid 80's by Railway 
roduction Classics (David Randall's firm). The plans for this 1940 Budd car 
how a partitioned Jim Crow section on its vestibule end with "Negro" men's and 
omen's restrooms. This is the first time I have noticed this oddity.
Why in the world would the Burlington need a Jim Crow car? I don't think any of 
he states it served had Jim Crow laws. The General Pershing Zephyr cars, which 
erved Missouri, did not have Jim Crow sections.
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