BRHSLIST
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [CBQ] 1880s Train Orders

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CBQ] 1880s Train Orders
From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 22:05:22 -0400 (EDT)
Delivered-to: archives@venus.nauer.org
Delivered-to: archives@nauer.org
Delivered-to: mailing list CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoogroups.com; s=lima; t=1302574067; bh=vjX0eEm2fTT3QZ+M1KUwDKz9LFeOdcEIl77hFMIGk5E=; h=Received:Received:X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Sender:X-Apparently-To:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:X-Received:References:To:X-AOL-IP:In-Reply-To:X-MB-Message-Source:X-MB-Message-Type:X-Mailer:X-Received:Message-Id:x-aol-global-disposition:X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE:X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT:x-aol-sid:X-Originating-IP:From:X-Yahoo-Profile:Sender:MIME-Version:Mailing-List:Delivered-To:List-Id:Precedence:List-Unsubscribe:Date:Subject:Reply-To:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=Cnj/b3tchDYUQJphr7lPJtcxBUWRV/oro8ntukhwhVesmKQGt0macA6s+g86mmxk5z0nkTujh2sBxQb10jXPEhy3Ak13a3ho5xf2Et1FngQe2L2uU9ALPLCbZ9m54eRh
Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=SDauzHbkB4VnxyUdLadWMQW+0jiXuldXy4VHB/0OaxpOSbrWwaqnMt6TA1slTHr+nNfeOVI5D7WBV3T8tyuH4NndBHY40/vueLMvsifqfMT4qUqKMzfCQ1OxuraIxqlm;
In-reply-to: <21b56.32e7059e.3ad3d3e1@aol.com>
List-id: <CBQ.yahoogroups.com>
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Mailing-list: list CBQ@yahoogroups.com; contact CBQ-owner@yahoogroups.com
References: <21b56.32e7059e.3ad3d3e1@aol.com>
Reply-to: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sender: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Leo et al

Now that said garden is spaded and some other unanticipated chores complete 
here's the story on your orders.  I'll take them from top to bottom as you 
typed them in.

Train orders were regularly addressed to engineers and/or conductors rather 
than trains themselves.  Most of the old one's I've seen were addressed to just 
the conductor.  The small  t Engr, I would assume means Train Engineer.

To "run wild" was, as Hol said the term at that time for "run extra"..the terms 
are synonimous (sp).  Run to Earl ahead of 58 would be a type of order later 
known as a "run ahead" order.  In most cases rules provided that 
"...........extra trains may pass and run ahead of second and third class 
trains and extra trains" (Rule 85 Rules effective Dec 1, 1929)  No train order 
was necessary for this to happen....

Rule 86 provided that ....."in non automatic block signal territory, unless 
otherwise provided an infoerior train must be clear at the time a first class 
train in the same direction is due to leave the next station in the rear where 
time is shown".    In the instant case the order relieved Yeckley of clearing 
the time of #58 (which I assume is a first or second class train  (ie a 
superior train) which he would have had to do under the rules and in the 
absence of said order.   I read someplace that there was a rule which 
prohibiited the following train (ie superior train) from exceeding the 
authorized speed of the preceeding inferior train, but I can't cite the 
reference off hand.  In some cases in this situation the responsibility for a 
rear ender fell on the following train

I can't be absolutely certain, but I believe that  (13) was the telegraph 
"alert" to the operator that the DS had a train order for him...ie...he was to 
drop everything and answer the wire.

There are a couple of other, what we would call "oddball" orders used in the 
"old days"...one was a "hold order"...it was issued to the operator at the 
point where the train originated...It read simply "Hold No. 2".....Also there 
was a form of "may go order"...it seemed to function as a type of clearance 
although it seemed to be used in addition to the clearance form A.   It would 
read something like..."On receipt of Order No.s (list of orders applying to 
said train) No. 2 may go.  This type of order was still being used in 1911.  If 
 you want to see an actual case involving this type of order go the the ICC 
website year 1911 and read the account of a head on collision at Indianola, NE 
in 1911.

I'm interested in your "make best possible time" in the 1950's and 60's....I 
never saw or heard this one used...I have heard of "messages" reading something 
like this, but with the addition of the words..."consistent with 
safety"...Obviously if something happened it would not be "consistent with 
safety" and the hog head would still be "hung out to dry"...along with the 
conductor and possibly other crew members.   Tell us more about this one.

If there are more questions just post and If I don't know the answer I'll make 
one up.

Pete






-----Original Message-----
From: qutlx1 <qutlx1@aol.com>
To: cbq <cbq@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2011 10:48 pm
Subject: [CBQ] 1880s Train Orders


 

Today I stopped at the estate sale of Evie Gorman,wife of Wade Gorman,who 
was a longtime Aurora Division switchman,trainman and Condr. Among my 
purchases was a group of train orders.Most are from the 1930s on the C&I which 
make for interesting reading as this is pre CTC days.

But in the middle of the stack are orders from the 1880s. I will copy 2 of 
them verbatim below. Are they saying what I think they are? was this 
termed as "make best possible time" in the 50s and 60s ? It appears orders 
were written directly to Engineers/Conductors and not always to trains. 

1)Aurora 2/4/87

Yeckley, t Engr. Mendota

"run to (Streator or Sheridan) wild via East Sheridan Junction. Run to 
Earl ahead of #58.

GA
OK GA
10:47PM R Young

2) Aurora 1/29/85

Yeckley T Engr.

Aurora

"run to Chicago wild"

OK GA
145 ET

Both orders have the following notation in a different hand writing "13 
Yeckley".

There are two other 1885 orders that are more understandable to me,one is 
directed to the operator at Riverside to hold #12. The other again to 
Yeckley,T Engr at Downers Grove.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    CBQ-digest@yahoogroups.com 
    CBQ-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>