Thanks Bill
I have most of Brown's books...I'll have to check and see if I have his TO
book....It would have been one I would have bought. I wonder if the numbers
you cited ie 12 and 13 were used before the practice of repeating the order????
I don't know Seems like the number 19 was used as an alert to "Clear the
line for train orders"...Lots of stuff.....most of it worthless....running
around in my brain...some not properly connected.
This is interesting stuff.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Hirt <whirt@sbcglobal.net>
To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:30 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] 1880s Train Orders
Pete et al,
Many of us remember Bob Brown, former CB&Q agent and operator, selling
books at BRHS and other meets over the years. I bought his book on
Railroad Train Orders Iowa Railroads many years ago.
In his book he says that "You will note on the bottom of some of the
older train orders a number 12 and a number 13. Number 12 was a
telegraphers code number meaning 'Do you Understand.' Number 13 was a
code number meaning 'I understand.' This was used so the operator could
notify the dispatcher that he and the train crew understood the order."
The book also talks about wild trains with the same information Hol and
yourself wrote.
The are some great train orders in the book including one where eight
trains were to meet a third section of a scheduled train on the Q at
Lockridge Iowa in 1890.
Bill Hirt
On 4/11/2011 9:05 PM, Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com wrote:
> Leo et al
>
> Now that said garden is spaded and some other unanticipated chores complete
> here's the story on your orders. I'll take them from top to bottom as you
> typed them in.
>
> Train orders were regularly addressed to engineers and/or conductors rather
> than trains themselves. Most of the old one's I've seen were addressed to
> just the conductor. The small t Engr, I would assume means Train Engineer.
>
> To "run wild" was, as Hol said the term at that time for "run extra"..the
> terms are synonimous (sp). Run to Earl ahead of 58 would be a type of order
> later known as a "run ahead" order. In most cases rules provided that
> "...........extra trains may pass and run ahead of second and third class
> trains and extra trains" (Rule 85 Rules effective Dec 1, 1929) No train order
> was necessary for this to happen....
>
> Rule 86 provided that ....."in non automatic block signal territory, unless
> otherwise provided an infoerior train must be clear at the time a first class
> train in the same direction is due to leave the next station in the rear
> where time is shown". In the instant case the order relieved Yeckley of
> clearing the time of #58 (which I assume is a first or second class train (ie
> a superior train) which he would have had to do under the rules and in the
> absence of said order. I read someplace that there was a rule which
> prohibiited the following train (ie superior train) from exceeding the
> authorized speed of the preceeding inferior train, but I can't cite the
> reference off hand. In some cases in this situation the responsibility for a
> rear ender fell on the following train
>
> I can't be absolutely certain, but I believe that (13) was the telegraph
> "alert" to the operator that the DS had a train order for him...ie...he was
> to drop everything and answer the wire.
>
> There are a couple of other, what we would call "oddball" orders used in the
> "old days"...one was a "hold order"...it was issued to the operator at the
> point where the train originated...It read simply "Hold No. 2".....Also there
> was a form of "may go order"...it seemed to function as a type of clearance
> although it seemed to be used in addition to the clearance form A. It would
> read something like..."On receipt of Order No.s (list of orders applying to
> said train) No. 2 may go. This type of order was still being used in 1911. If
> you want to see an actual case involving this type of order go the the ICC
> website year 1911 and read the account of a head on collision at Indianola,
> NE in 1911.
>
> I'm interested in your "make best possible time" in the 1950's and 60's....I
> never saw or heard this one used...I have heard of "messages" reading
> something like this, but with the addition of the words..."consistent with
> safety"...Obviously if something happened it would not be "consistent with
> safety" and the hog head would still be "hung out to dry"...along with the
> conductor and possibly other crew members. Tell us more about this one.
>
> If there are more questions just post and If I don't know the answer I'll
> make one up.
>
> Pete
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: qutlx1<qutlx1@aol.com>
> To: cbq<cbq@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 10, 2011 10:48 pm
> Subject: [CBQ] 1880s Train Orders
>
>
>
>
> Today I stopped at the estate sale of Evie Gorman,wife of Wade Gorman,who
> was a longtime Aurora Division switchman,trainman and Condr. Among my
> purchases was a group of train orders.Most are from the 1930s on the C&I which
> make for interesting reading as this is pre CTC days.
>
> But in the middle of the stack are orders from the 1880s. I will copy 2 of
> them verbatim below. Are they saying what I think they are? was this
> termed as "make best possible time" in the 50s and 60s ? It appears orders
> were written directly to Engineers/Conductors and not always to trains.
>
> 1)Aurora 2/4/87
>
> Yeckley, t Engr. Mendota
>
> "run to (Streator or Sheridan) wild via East Sheridan Junction. Run to
> Earl ahead of #58.
>
> GA
> OK GA
> 10:47PM R Young
>
> 2) Aurora 1/29/85
>
> Yeckley T Engr.
>
> Aurora
>
> "run to Chicago wild"
>
> OK GA
> 145 ET
>
> Both orders have the following notation in a different hand writing "13
> Yeckley".
>
> There are two other 1885 orders that are more understandable to me,one is
> directed to the operator at Riverside to hold #12. The other again to
> Yeckley,T Engr at Downers Grove.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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