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Re:: [CBQ] Re: 1958 Wreck and the intimidation factor

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Subject: Re:: [CBQ] Re: 1958 Wreck and the intimidation factor
From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:55:45 -0500
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A couple of days ago I mentioned that after sufficient time had elapsed for all 
who wanted to participate in the discussion of the 1958 wrecks at Chugwater and 
Bloomfield to have read or reread the ICC reports that I wanted to comment upon 
what I have termed "the intimidation factor".

I don't know the age of those of you who have commented thus far..one person 
says that he has been on "both sides of the investigation table" which might 
indicate he has considerable RR experience and would have some idea of what 
goes on in cab and waycar.

My own railroad experience goes back to 1956 when I hired out as a brakeman on 
the Lincoln division in June while a student at the University of Nebraska.? I 
worked summers 56 57 58 on the Lincoln and Wymore divisions...

At that time there were plenty of the "old head"...I mean really old head 
enginemen and trainmen working...Some with seniority back to the early 
"teens".? The attitudes of these guys varied from actively hostile to 
reasonably tolerant to helpful if they could see you were trying to do your job 
right and had a decent attitude.....Those in the middle class were in the 
majority and those of the totally opposite spectrum occupied the other ends.

The attitude of some of the old head engineers...(all of my experience was on 
the head end, since I never had enough "whiskers" to told a rear end job) was 
that "you don't tell me anything, I wont' tell you anything until you do 
something wrong and then I'll "eat your A... out"..to use the vernacular of the 
day.....Being of the non-rebelious type and having a healthy respect for those 
in authority, as were most of my generation I was hesitant to ever make any 
comment as to how the train was being operated....The militaristic attitude of 
railroad management at that time was reflected almost in totallity by the 
operating crafts....."You don't question what I do or say"...keep your mouth 
shut.....

To question where an engineer was running to fast or was, apparently 
overlooking a train order, just wasn't done....Now before you guys jump on me 
about what the rules say and you shouldn't have been so reticent etc etc 
etc....I'm not supporting this situation...I"m just telling you..."HOW IT 
WAS".....and IT WAS WHAT IT WAS.

In the case of the Bloomfield matter the fireman had continually warned the 
engineer that he was "on the time of 30" and didn't receive a "satisfactory 
answer"...also the conductor allowed? the engineer to go by the last possible 
escape point without taking any positive action...Many of the conductors were 
hesitant to "run the train from the waycar" and were very reluctant to "pull 
the air"...This conductor apparently was ready to do so, but he let it go too 
long.

For a personal example.? In 1957? I was head brakeman on a through freight turn 
between Lincoln and St. Joseph MO.? The engineer was an old head, nortorious 
for fast running and bad attitude...I had been forewarned of his tendencies.? 
On the down trip as we approached Tecumseh, NE where the train order signal is 
not visible until you come around a curve not far from the depot.? We expected 
to pick up an order....We were running at, or a bit over the 55 mph freight 
train speed...It was just about dusk.

We came around the curve and saw the the order board was red, but the Operator 
was not on the platform...You would think that George would have? "shut off" or 
given some indication that he was going to stop...he did nothing...he stared 
straight ahead and kept her wide open...We had one of the F7's or F3's...I got 
off my seat opened the door on the fireman's side, put my foot down on the 
step, grabbed the handhold overhead and waited.? We got closer and closer to 
the station and about the time we got to the end of the platform the OP came 
tearing out and stuck the hoop up just as? we went by...gues what..."I 
missed...The only time I ever did...The fireman yelled to George...He 
missed....George cursed and swore and began to set the air...I dropped off as 
soon as we got slowed down to where I could do it....The op got in his car and 
drove the orders up to us on the head end and we went on..

George continued to bite and snap at me the rest of the down trip.

Coming back the next day on No 61 we picked up an order at Falls City regarding 
our meet with No. 78 at Tecumseh?? Without going into the details, the order 
required No. 78 to take siding at Tecumseh...At Table Rock we picked up another 
order superseeding the first order and telling us to meet 78 at Elk Creek.? 
Along with this order was another order annulling the superseding order and 
changing the meet back to Tecumseh.? This order?BY ITS SILENCE required us to 
take siding at Tecumseh..I was a bit confused as to whether we were or not to 
take siding....This uncertainty required me to discuss the situation with 
George...but I wasn't about to risk another A...eatin;g.? So I continued in my 
uncertain state violating the tenants of Rule 108 which states..."when In doubt 
the safe course must be taken"...

As we approached Tecumseh which lies on a curve and the east siding switch is 
near the east end of the curve the fireman...as they always did in those days 
in time of crisis...or pending crisis went "back in the engine room".? I was 
standing in the middle of the cab as we approached the siding switch...I still 
wasn't sure whether we were to head in or not....As we got closer I could tell 
that George wasn't going to stop for us to head in.?? 

As we got by the switch and around to where we could see up to the depot there 
was 78 on the Mainline standing at the depot...George made a heavy brake 
application and got us stopped well by the switch...We backed up and headed 
in...As we pulled up the siding and approached 78's head end who should climb 
off of 78's engine but Trainmaster-Road Foreman O.W.Wells II.? (Archie you can 
tell O.W. III about this).? Wells, climbed up into our cab and said..."What's 
the matter George...can't you read your orders"..George just glared at him, not 
saying anything.

Of course there was an investigation...I thought...Oh oh...my railroad career 
is over before it got started....Well, it wasn't too bad.?The investigating 
officer asked me if I knew we should have taken the siding...I 
replied.."truthfully"..I wasn't sure...Because of my being a "new hire" I got 
no discipline.?? George maintained that he knew we were to take siding, but 
just didn't get stopped quite in time.? Well it didn't sell. ?George was 
restricted to branch line service.

The next spring I went down to the TM office to check up as to whether I could 
hire on again summer of 58.? Billy Loos the TM was in the office and the 
subject of the Tecumseh matter came up..Billy asked me something about 
George...I told him...George didn't know we were to head in and I wasn't 
sure...Billy said..."I didn't think so"...He's been wanting me to put him back 
ont he mainline, but I'm not going to do it"...I guess I got a bit of 
"revenge", but what I said was true...but maybe not the best thing to do.? 
George finished his railroading days on the Lincoln-Nebraska City local.

Someone in a recent post wondered how an entire crew could go "brain dead" and 
forget an order...Well, on the ICC website there is a report of an affair on 
the CGW, I don't recall the year...A passenger train picked up an order at 
Diagonal, IA to meet a light engine at Arispe IA, just five miles downt the 
line....The whole crew overlooked the order which they had held less than 15 
minutes and they passed the meeting point and hit the light engine just south 
of that point.

Well, that's my theory and personal example of the "intimidation factor"...like 
it or not...believe it or not...that's how it was..

What say you Archie and Leo.

Pete


-----Original Message-----
From: richard haave <therrboomer@yahoo.com>
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 5:36 pm
Subject: Re:[SPAM]Re: [CBQ] Re: 1958 Wreck







Two more comments on this head on:
?
I witnessed time and time again where the whole crew seems to simultaneously go 
brain dead?over some event.
?
In this case the other crew members said they warned the engineer, but as the 
record shows, none took?the required action of stopping the train.? In 
incidents such as these, one question ALWAYS comes up at the formal 
investigation:
?
"Mr (insert name) will you please tell us what action you took to stop the 
train.......?
?
We all now know the answer was,?no action was taken.??Therefore each crew 
member, except perhaps the inexperienced brakeman,?was jointly responsible with 
the engineer.
?
During my time in the industry I've been on both side of the investigation 
table. Neither side is recommended.
?
I can not imagine the angst the other crew members must?suffered for the rest 
of their lives knowing their inaction caused the deaths of their fellow 
employees/friends.

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