Thank you very much for sharing these stories, Pete. Your postings
always are among the most interesting and informative on what is
already a very high quality discussion forum. And you write well. I
hope you will consider collecting these tales into some sort of 'oral
history.' The BRHS's Burlington Bulletin is always looking for
material - including short reminiscences - and you have some great stuff.
Best wishes,
Jonathan
--- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, Jpslhedgpeth@... wrote:
>
> A couple of days ago I mentioned that after sufficient time had
elapsed for all who wanted to participate in the discussion of the
1958 wrecks at Chugwater and Bloomfield to have read or reread the ICC
reports that I wanted to comment upon what I have termed "the
intimidation factor".
>
> I don't know the age of those of you who have commented thus
far..one person says that he has been on "both sides of the
investigation table" which might indicate he has considerable RR
experience and would have some idea of what goes on in cab and waycar.
>
> My own railroad experience goes back to 1956 when I hired out as a
brakeman on the Lincoln division in June while a student at the
University of Nebraska.? I worked summers 56 57 58 on the Lincoln and
Wymore divisions...
>
> At that time there were plenty of the "old head"...I mean really old
head enginemen and trainmen working...Some with seniority back to the
early "teens".? The attitudes of these guys varied from actively
hostile to reasonably tolerant to helpful if they could see you were
trying to do your job right and had a decent attitude.....Those in the
middle class were in the majority and those of the totally opposite
spectrum occupied the other ends.
>
> The attitude of some of the old head engineers...(all of my
experience was on the head end, since I never had enough "whiskers" to
told a rear end job) was that "you don't tell me anything, I wont'
tell you anything until you do something wrong and then I'll "eat your
A... out"..to use the vernacular of the day.....Being of the
non-rebelious type and having a healthy respect for those in
authority, as were most of my generation I was hesitant to ever make
any comment as to how the train was being operated....The militaristic
attitude of railroad management at that time was reflected almost in
totallity by the operating crafts....."You don't question what I do or
say"...keep your mouth shut.....
>
> To question where an engineer was running to fast or was, apparently
overlooking a train order, just wasn't done....Now before you guys
jump on me about what the rules say and you shouldn't have been so
reticent etc etc etc....I'm not supporting this situation...I"m just
telling you..."HOW IT WAS".....and IT WAS WHAT IT WAS.
>
> In the case of the Bloomfield matter the fireman had continually
warned the engineer that he was "on the time of 30" and didn't receive
a "satisfactory answer"...also the conductor allowed? the engineer to
go by the last possible escape point without taking any positive
action...Many of the conductors were hesitant to "run the train from
the waycar" and were very reluctant to "pull the air"...This conductor
apparently was ready to do so, but he let it go too long.
>
> For a personal example.? In 1957? I was head brakeman on a through
freight turn between Lincoln and St. Joseph MO.? The engineer was an
old head, nortorious for fast running and bad attitude...I had been
forewarned of his tendencies.? On the down trip as we approached
Tecumseh, NE where the train order signal is not visible until you
come around a curve not far from the depot.? We expected to pick up an
order....We were running at, or a bit over the 55 mph freight train
speed...It was just about dusk.
>
> We came around the curve and saw the the order board was red, but
the Operator was not on the platform...You would think that George
would have? "shut off" or given some indication that he was going to
stop...he did nothing...he stared straight ahead and kept her wide
open...We had one of the F7's or F3's...I got off my seat opened the
door on the fireman's side, put my foot down on the step, grabbed the
handhold overhead and waited.? We got closer and closer to the station
and about the time we got to the end of the platform the OP came
tearing out and stuck the hoop up just as? we went by...gues what..."I
missed...The only time I ever did...The fireman yelled to George...He
missed....George cursed and swore and began to set the air...I dropped
off as soon as we got slowed down to where I could do it....The op got
in his car and drove the orders up to us on the head end and we went on..
>
> George continued to bite and snap at me the rest of the down trip.
>
> Coming back the next day on No 61 we picked up an order at Falls
City regarding our meet with No. 78 at Tecumseh?? Without going into
the details, the order required No. 78 to take siding at Tecumseh...At
Table Rock we picked up another order superseeding the first order and
telling us to meet 78 at Elk Creek.? Along with this order was another
order annulling the superseding order and changing the meet back to
Tecumseh.? This order?BY ITS SILENCE required us to take siding at
Tecumseh..I was a bit confused as to whether we were or not to take
siding....This uncertainty required me to discuss the situation with
George...but I wasn't about to risk another A...eatin;g.? So I
continued in my uncertain state violating the tenants of Rule 108
which states..."when In doubt the safe course must be taken"...
>
> As we approached Tecumseh which lies on a curve and the east siding
switch is near the east end of the curve the fireman...as they always
did in those days in time of crisis...or pending crisis went "back in
the engine room".? I was standing in the middle of the cab as we
approached the siding switch...I still wasn't sure whether we were to
head in or not....As we got closer I could tell that George wasn't
going to stop for us to head in.??
>
> As we got by the switch and around to where we could see up to the
depot there was 78 on the Mainline standing at the depot...George made
a heavy brake application and got us stopped well by the switch...We
backed up and headed in...As we pulled up the siding and approached
78's head end who should climb off of 78's engine but Trainmaster-Road
Foreman O.W.Wells II.? (Archie you can tell O.W. III about this).?
Wells, climbed up into our cab and said..."What's the matter
George...can't you read your orders"..George just glared at him, not
saying anything.
>
> Of course there was an investigation...I thought...Oh oh...my
railroad career is over before it got started....Well, it wasn't too
bad.?The investigating officer asked me if I knew we should have taken
the siding...I replied.."truthfully"..I wasn't sure...Because of my
being a "new hire" I got no discipline.?? George maintained that he
knew we were to take siding, but just didn't get stopped quite in
time.? Well it didn't sell. ?George was restricted to branch line service.
>
> The next spring I went down to the TM office to check up as to
whether I could hire on again summer of 58.? Billy Loos the TM was in
the office and the subject of the Tecumseh matter came up..Billy asked
me something about George...I told him...George didn't know we were to
head in and I wasn't sure...Billy said..."I didn't think so"...He's
been wanting me to put him back ont he mainline, but I'm not going to
do it"...I guess I got a bit of "revenge", but what I said was
true...but maybe not the best thing to do.? George finished his
railroading days on the Lincoln-Nebraska City local.
>
> Someone in a recent post wondered how an entire crew could go "brain
dead" and forget an order...Well, on the ICC website there is a report
of an affair on the CGW, I don't recall the year...A passenger train
picked up an order at Diagonal, IA to meet a light engine at Arispe
IA, just five miles downt the line....The whole crew overlooked the
order which they had held less than 15 minutes and they passed the
meeting point and hit the light engine just south of that point.
>
> Well, that's my theory and personal example of the "intimidation
factor"...like it or not...believe it or not...that's how it was..
>
> What say you Archie and Leo.
>
> Pete
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: richard haave <therrboomer@...>
> To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 5:36 pm
> Subject: Re:[SPAM]Re: [CBQ] Re: 1958 Wreck
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Two more comments on this head on:
> ?
> I witnessed time and time again where the whole crew seems to
simultaneously go brain dead?over some event.
> ?
> In this case the other crew members said they warned the engineer,
but as the record shows, none took?the required action of stopping the
train.? In incidents such as these, one question ALWAYS comes up at
the formal investigation:
> ?
> "Mr (insert name) will you please tell us what action you took to
stop the train.......?
> ?
> We all now know the answer was,?no action was taken.??Therefore each
crew member, except perhaps the inexperienced brakeman,?was jointly
responsible with the engineer.
> ?
> During my time in the industry I've been on both side of the
investigation table. Neither side is recommended.
> ?
> I can not imagine the angst the other crew members must?suffered for
the rest of their lives knowing their inaction caused the deaths of
their fellow employees/friends.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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