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Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.

To: cbq@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
From: Norm Metcalf <n.metcalf@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:21:59 -0600
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HOL WAGNER wrote:
> This date would have been very shortly after Santa Fe dieselized the 
> Colorado Springs switching assignment, with one of the 450-series 
> Davenport 44-ton centercabs replacing an 825-series 0-8-0 or 2-8-0.  At 
> least two of the Davenports carried the Joint Line lettering and were 
> used into the early 1960s, when replaced by a GE 44-tonner (still 
> black/silver), then blue/yellow GE 464 and blue/yellow Baldwin DS4-4-750 
> 632.
>  
> Hol Wagner
> 
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     >     *Sent:* Thursday, July 03, 2008 9:03 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
> 
>     Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com <mailto:Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com> wrote:
>      > Mark...Believe it or not I found what you wanted to know.
>      >
>      > August 24, 1954
>      >
>      > Denver-- Colo Spgs...No. 1? Texas Zephyr......My 1953 Guide
>     shows...Denver 12:01 pm?? CS 1:40 pm
>      >
>      > Colo Spgs---Denver?? No.
>     8??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>     CS??????? 6:10pm????Denver 8:05
>      >
>      > I may be "digging" in my slides in the next month or so and If so
>     I'll try to find that slide of an ATSF center cab
>      > at CS with dual?? C&S-ASF lettering.? Would have been taken that
>     same day.
>      >
>      > Also seems like the Southbound TZ ran via the DRGW DEpot at CS
>     and the Northbound No. 8 via the ATSF depot at CS.
>      >
>      > Pete
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com <mailto:Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com>
>      > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
>      > Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 9:06 am
>      > Subject: Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      >
>      > Mark
>      >
>      > I can get it found, but it may take awhile...I know the year was
>     1954...think I put 55 on my original post.? The month would have
>     been August.
>      >
>      > We came back from C. Spgs in the late afternoon...Also I'm sure
>     I've got a slide of a ATSF center cab switcher at CS...It may have
>     the " lettering"...I'm not sure
>      >
>      > Give me a few days and remind me again if you don't hear....My
>     railfan buddy Jim Christen kept a "log" of ;our trips with train
>     numbers etc.? I have a copy of it, if I can find it...
>      >
>      > Pete
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Mark Sellars <sellarsmark_aus@yahoo.com
>     <mailto:sellarsmark_aus@yahoo.com>>
>      > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
>      > Sent: Wed, 2 Jul 2008 6:26 am
>      > Subject: Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
>      >
>      > Greetings Pete,
>      > How is your memory? Coudl you recall the train number, or the
>     railroad and or the time of day and direction you took for your?trip
>     over the Joint Line?
>      > This will help me fix a bench mark for when trains carried mixed
>     crews.
>      > many thanks, Mark
>      >
>      > ----- Original Message ----
>      > From: "Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com <mailto:Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com>"
>     <Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com <mailto:Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com>>
>      > To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
>      > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:53:13 AM
>      > Subject: Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
>      >
>      >>From strictly memory of my one and only trip over the joint line
>     in August 1955, seems I remember that on the passenger trains you
>     could have a "mixed" train crew....Maybe a Q (C&S) Conductor and a
>     ATSF Brakeman or two.
>      >
>      > Pete
>      >
>      > -----Original Message-----
>      > From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast <mailto:rgz17@comcast>. net>
>      > To: CBQ@yahoogroups <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups>. com
>      > Sent: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 7:05 pm
>      > Subject: Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
>      >
>      > The D&RGW / D&RG also ran the MP, CRI&P and AT&SF trains. Before the
>      > Santa Fe built their line north from Colorado Springs, the D&RG
>      > handled their trains - the locomotives used (and for freight, the
>      > cabooses), were the first standard gauged equipment on the
>      > railroad. Of course, that also meant that the D&RG line was 3 rails.
>      >
>      > At 06:28 PM 6/24/2008, you wrote:
>      >> Greetings Russ,
>      >>
>      >> I have copies of the Joint Operating Agreements of 1900, 1915 and
>      >> 1940. Plus the maps.
>      >>
>      >> Certainly the D&RG(W) always (beware of Murphy's Law) ran their
>     own trains.
>      >>
>      >> And I believe that the C&S and the AT&SF did too, for a while, then
>      >> the AT&SF crews took over (I am not looking at the post merger
>     period here).
>      >> (I am not sure about what happened when the CRI&P and Colorado
>      >> Midland used their landlord's tracks.)
>      >>
>      >> You are right; the the C&S handled all Denver area engine
>     servicing,
>      >> yards (including the AT&SF yards whilst they existed), and locals
>      >> north of South Denver for the AT&SF and the C&S.
>      >>
>      >> And that the AT&SF handled similar business in Colorado Springs
>     and Pueblo.
>      >>
>      >> Lloyd Stagner confirmed that the respective railroads crewed their
>      >> own way cars until the 1940s.
>      >> But what happened after that I don't know.
>      >>
>      >> Russ, many thanks for your input.
>      >>
>      >> Regards, Mark
>      >> ----- Original Message ----
>      >> From: Russ Strodtz <borneo@19main <mailto:borneo@19main>. com>
>      >> To: CBQ@yahoogroups <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups>. com
>      >> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:02:53 PM
>      >> Subject: Re: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
>      >>
>      >>
>      >> Mark,
>      >>
>      >> Might be confused many time here. AT&SF, C&S, and D&RGW all had
>      >> their own Denver to Pueblo. Except for a small North and small South
>      >> C&S everything was scrapped. Look at the maps.
>      >>
>      >> C&S got all yard areas at the Denver Terminal. AT&SF got the
>      >> Colorado Springs and Pueblo yard. This was all agreed.
>      >>
>      >> As information current as BNSF runs Denver-LaJunta- Amarillo. Only
>      >> crews and all run East. Runs Amarillo-Trinidad- Denver. This crews
>      >> handle everything West. There is a small local that runs Pueblo
>      >> to LaJunta. Locals can also run BNSF to get from West, Amarillo
>      >> via Dalhart-Stratford- back to Amarillo on UP trackage. That keeps
>      >> everything going still West and then East.
>      >>
>      >> Part of change was Eastbound at Las Animas is on strait line to
>      >> Boise City and Amarillo. Las Animas to Dodge City is now turning
>      >> to go to the South and East. Everything is still at Las Animas, it
>      >> just has the turns different directions. There are a few odd runs
>      >> that have to go to Pueblo-West. Did try it to Trinidad but it was
>      >> not been very good. With Trinidad to Raton sold I don't think they
>      >> can run that way.
>      >>
>      >> Russ
>      >>
>      >> ----- Original Message -----
>      >> From: Mark Sellars
>      >> To: CBQ@yahoogroups <mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups>. com
>      >> Sent: Tuesday, 24 June, 2008 03:32
>      >> Subject: [CBQ] C&S Crewing rights over the Joint Line.
>      >>
>      >> Greetings All,
>      >>
>      >> Pardon me if I have asked this question before.
>      >>
>      >> The Joint Line ran between South Denver and Pueblo, Colorado.
>      >> In 1899, with subsequent renewals in 1900, 1915 etc, the Colorado &
>      >> Southern and the Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe signed a Joint
>      >> Operating Agreement which amongst other thing allowed the C&S to
>     use
>      >> AT&SF [and later, after October 1918, D&RG(W)] trackage between
>      >> South Denver and Pueblo.
>      >>
>      >> Initially C&S trains were crewed by C&S engine men (probably) and
>      >> C&S way cars were crewed by C&S men.
>      >> Sometime in the 1950s(??) the C&S men lost their crewing rights
>     to AT&SF men.
>      >> Can anyone shed light on what happened to cause this and why?
>      >>
>      >> As a matter of interest, AT&SF C&S way cars were assigned to trains
>      >> according to their place on the roster. That is way cars form one
>      >> company frequently brought up the rear of the other's trains; for
>      >> good measure occasionally way cars from each company were assigned.
>      >>
>      >> Regards, Mark Sellars
>      >> Adelaide, South Australia.
>      >>
>      >


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