At 08:22 AM 1/13/2005, you wrote:
That's what I thought as well (that the CZ consist didn't change much) -
until I started doing some analysis on consists. I have over 50 of them,
most of them in the early 60's, but scattered from 50-69.
What I see is that maybe 20% is a "pure" CZ set. That surprised me. Most
often there was a "foreign" sleeper - and it wasn't a PRR or NYC. I have a
UP, SP, C&NW, IC, Milw, N&W, C&O, B&O, NKP, and non CZ or even Z Q
equipment. Also the baggage is swapped for a non CZ non-silver baggage
often. There is about a 10% chance of seeing a foreign coach - a ATSF
flatop or a D&RGW dome coach (the Royal Gorge ex-C&O Budd dome) or more
likely the D&RGW 124x 52 seat coach. The other changes were more subtle in
that it's more difficult to tell when a Q Silver is a non-CZ car.
The consist that was assigned didn't change much and that may be what you
are saying, and if so, I apologize. In that case, you have the 16 section
to flat top change, the addition of the different 10-6 and the 6-5. You
also have, on several later runs, a dorm car after the baggage. Now, why
the dorm facilities in the lounge car weren't enough, I don't know, but in
several late consists, a sleeper is put in right behind the baggage and is
noted for dorm use (not for tour group which is another story).
In summer season, especially in the 60's, there are a lot of tour group
cars - these typically show up as 2-3 SP or C&NW or even UP cars. One
thing that was explained to us is that the DZ ran the "local" stops for the
Q - and took a lot of the overhead from the CZ - on the Q. So you might
see the consist expand and contract at Denver. (remember that the DZ often
"caught up with" the CZ there).
The consist information that I do have and am using isn't mine to give out
(except that which I did yesterday and of course that which is in the
Zephyrs). I can ask if people are interested though. It isn't in the
original format as sent, as I have modified it for my analysis purposes.
>The Cal Zephyr (unlike some of the other CB&Q trains) had a remarkably
>stable consist over its cb&q lifetime .... Just a few sleeper changes
>- conversions to coaches I believe of the 16 sections ....
>
>When I compare the initial consists (listed on the cal zephyr museum
>website) with late 60's consists listed elsewhere they are very
>similar. I do have photos showing the addition of havelock baggage
>cars on the headend in addtion or substituted for the original CZ
>baggage cares but i think if you just modeled the original consist you
>coulr get away with that for a late 60's version as well.
>
>I believe there were differences in the skirting (some cars were
>de-skirted ?) and intercar connections - full width originally - and I
>believe the domes had wipers on the ends originally : check all these
>details though since these are just my recollections. I dont have
>dates when these changes were made so perhaps someone else does ....
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