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Re: [BRHSlist] E-5's

To: <BRHSlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [BRHSlist] E-5's
From: "Marshall Thayer" <zephyr9903@e...>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:33:47 -0700
References: <108.17a4d7bd.2aae1abd@a...>
Subject: [BRHSlist] E-5's

>>I've been running a pair of E5s on my RR for yrs., mindful that they didn't 
match too well. I assumed the B unit must be phase II, and that I was an 
out-of-phase railroader (which is a pretty accurate description of what kind 
of a railroader I am). Reading all of the E5 messages got me curious, so I 
went downstairs and checked the boxes. Surprisingly both are ph. I. A unit 
is Oriental; B unit is Challenger. B has smaller, more delicately detailed 
grills (or louvres) on the roof. B unit has slightly larger side windows. 
Is it possible there were differences like this in ph.I E's, or am I the 
victim of some inaccurate detailing? (I'm not fussy, not bothered by this, 
just curious). <<

It's a good question and brings up interesting points. There appear to have 
been 3 different designs for non-fan cooling on 567-powered E units, all 
inytroduced in the pre-war period, and all appearing on the few E-5s 
manufactured. The five E-5A Ph II motors (Q9913-9914A&B-9915A&B)have the 
stand-up longitudinal vent boxes we are familiar with on the E-7 and most E-6s. 

The 6 E-5A Ph I units (Q9909-9910A-9911A-9912A; C&S9950A; FW&D9980A) used the 
second form, which consists of transverse slats in a slightly raised box. These 
louvers were mechanically operated, occasionally with an external linkage (see 
early photos of CRI&P 625/626). Because of the "bugs", the slats were often 
removed in later years, leaving the radiator cores exposed below the carlines 
and (usually) hardware cloth or wire netting.

All 5 E-5B Ph I units (Q9910B-9911B-9912B; C&S9950B; FW&D9980B) received the 
first and rarest version of vents. This is a series of transverse fixed louvers 
stamped into metal sheets, and will be most familiar to Early Zephyr fans 
because of its use on 9908 "Silver Charger". So, without seeing them, I would 
guess that your roofs are correct.

On to the windows (can of worms that it is). It has long been an article of 
faith that the E-5 windows were either shorter in heighth or greater in width 
than the EMD standard, but I am becoming increasingly convinced that this is 
incorrect. It apparently stems from an optical illusion (dress a person on 
horizontal stripes & they look fatter) prepetuated by Al Kamm, jr. in his 
mid-60s plans for RMC. I have plans for the E-5 on my drawing board (pardon - 
that's "drawing CRT") where the standard heighth windows appear to fit 
perfectly with other known side dimensions. OTOH, I have yet to see written 
confirmation (such as a West Burlington order form citing repairs to an E-5 and 
requisitioning a standard EMD parts no.)

Challenger has done excellent research on Burlington equipment lately, and they 
may have found something - I am absolutely positive there is no difference in 
E-5 window sizes from order to order.

For those who might be wondering - other phase differences between the first 6 
and last 5 E-5As include (on the ph I) a 4'-6" wide coupler striker on the 
pilot, with raised coupler doors of matching width; train heating vent 
configuration, and the cab sidevent. The two phases have different-shaped pilot 
steps, and only the phase I was delivered with permanent uncoupling levers.

I suspect a lot of listers are learning more about E-5s than they *ever* wanted 
to know <LOL>

Marshall











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