Hol, Charlie:
Wow, what a treasure trove of images! Thank you both VERY much.
What’s interesting is that the diverted 1906 has a forward sand dome and still has its GN initials on it, whereas the Corbin photo is of one of the T-1a’s, and would have been Baldwin’s photo of a loco they built specifically for CB&Q.
And the Baldwin photo shows a loco without a forward sand dome and sand piping.
I could well believe that the three diverted locos were delivered to the CB&Q with whatever colors GN specified from Baldwin (possibly Black, possibly Glacier Park colors), and that the first T-1a might have been given a colored boiler
jacket treatment, whether gray paint (a typical Baldwin affectation for later builders photos) or Russia iron.
Of interest to me is that CB&Q didn’t modify the sand domes on 4000 and 4001, but increased the height on the 4002. I’m assuming that 4000, 4001, and 4002 were all diverted locos and therefore T-1, while the 4003 - 4007 were T-1a. The
T-1a 4007 back dome (at least) seems to be of a lower design, but not the same profile as the GN design. The photo of 4007 in Corbin shows that CB&Q seemed to use whatever dome they had lying around to implement the T-1a’s forward dome.
Also of interest, CB&Q apparently kept the single NY Air compound pump configuration on 4000 – 4002 that GN usually specified on its locos, whereas 4007 shows dual single stage Westinghouse air pumps.
Finally, that tender lamp arrangement on 4002 is eye-opening.
So, when starting with a PFM L-1 model, unless one wants (and has the resources) to change out the domes and air pump, your choices are 4000 or 4001. Period. A good craftsman might make horizontal cuts through the sand domes and raise
their height using bands of 0.005” brass sheet stock as the cylindrical sides of the domes, to model 4002. To accomplish a T-1a, most brass repair guys could substitute in dual single stage air pumps for the NY Air compound pump, and swap out the forward
PFM sand dome for an appropriate one in the PSC catalog, but may also be faced with swapping out the aft sand dome, if a suitable casting can be found. The tender lamp stand on 4002 would have to be custom fabricated, and would be a delicate feature at best.
I think I’ll probably chicken out and do 4000 or 4001, even though that means I’ll only have the “standard Black” livery option. Even going the 4002 route would leave me with only the Black option. Of course, I could just take the forward sand dome and related
piping off the model, and do the 4004’s delivery scheme, but I suspect CB&Q didn’t even attempt to break in the 4004 before applying a forward sand dome (at which time I’m guessing they would have painted the loco in their operating colors.)
Well, we (generally) serve in the harness of accuracy, to the extent feasible. Rats! But
Thank You to Ray, Dennis, Charlie, and Hol for helping with my questions.
Best,
-Eric
Sent from
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The 1907 build date of the second batch of T-1s is right at the end of the rather routine use of Russia iron for boiler jackets, and Baldwin may have used some of the material still on hand for
the engine in the builder's photo. But I'm sure the frugal Q didn't specify it. And I agree that Glacier Green, if it was even in use by GN at that time, would not have been applied to what were essentially freight train pusher locomotives. Attached is
an image of one of the three GN engines that were diverted to the Q at Chicago. The view is in Creston, Iowa, on the way west to Havelock for renumbering and set-up. Also early photos of two of the three GN engines with their Q numbers. They have what started
as glossy black boiler jackets but quickly became very dirty looking.
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> on behalf of Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2022 3:07 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q T-1
All-
I looked through all my locomotive file images and did not find what I was looking for. I seem to recall a closeup view of the cab of a T1.
It is unlikely that the boilers were ever painted a lighter color. Some of them (especially the ones diverted from the GN order) may have had Russian Iron jackets but soon
got painted, The attached photos show grimy weathered engines at any rate.
I don’t think they would have been green; a GNHS member would have to address when and what got the green paint.
Charlie Vlk
From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of
Ray Bedard
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 5:35 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q T-1
I don't have an answer, but since these were also done for the Great Northern with green boiler jacket, I wonder if they delivered it to the Q the same way, and then the Q repainted them.
I’m trying to figure out how to specify a paint job on a CB&Q T-1/T-1a. The attached T-1a drawing intrigues me no end, as it seems to imply a colored boiler jacket, and a black enameled smokebox. It doesn’t provide workable evidence
for or against a Tuscan cab roof. Even the cab sides and the Belpaire hips look ambiguous in this photo.
Anybody have concrete knowledge of the T-1 or T-1a livery, either at delivery, or just pre-1927? Does anybody have knowledge of what comes after the “T-1” text below the road number on the cab side?
Thanks in advance for any help!
-Eric Bott
Sent from
Mail for Windows
From: Dennis C. Henry
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 4:58 PM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] CB&Q Budd Gallery Cars in non-Commuter Service
Tom,
A single Budd gallery car was carried eastbound on the Twin Zephyr
No. 22 on Saturday July 29, 1966. It was the second to last car,
behind the regular consist as seen departing from St. Paul Union
Depot during the nationwide airline strike that summer. See Disc #2
in my DVD album http://www.brasscarsides.com/#DVD in the chapter on St. Paul.
Dennis Henry
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