Re: [CBQ] Last Steam Locomotive in Mt. Morris?

["Richard Gortowski via groups.io" <rgortowski=aol.com@groups.io>]

Leo,

Pull out your Zephyr 47 and look at the station map (1928.)  It's south of the mainline, closer to the river.  When swapping engines for the monthly inspection, I would imagine the steam engine would run normally up to Flag Center, then cut off, wye itself, and run to Oregon backwards.  All the photos of the steam switchers I've seen have the engine facing east.  Bob Rees told me they would leave it overnight just past the depot before switching the Oregon city line and running up to Mt Morris the next day..  It's going to be a really interesting job.

Rich G

-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Phillipp via groups.io <qutlx1=aol.com@groups.io>
To: CBQ@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2022 9:46 pm
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Last Steam Locomotive in Mt. Morris?



Rich,

You tweaked my interest. ETT #14 of spring 1944 show a ‘Y’ at Oregon. ETT #15 of spring 1945 does not(no fall ‘44 ETT,war time cost saving ?). So where was the wye?   I’ve never heard it mentioned before .

By the way, going thru ETT’s as far as back the twenties I do not find a ‘C’ for coal at Oregon. Would be interesting to learn how the loco was fueled. ‘W’ for water is there well into the mid 50’s where I stopped looking. 

Which of course brought back an old memory of “running for water, engine lite” from Carter to Oregon with engineer “Deputy Dog” at the throttle. I even collected the round trip miles between those two stations under the rule for said event. The reason I recall it so clearly was the heated written exchange with “ mgmt” on the merits of the claim. The “water source” in those days was a hose laying in front of the depot. 

Leo

On Jun 22, 2022, at 8:46 PM, Richard Gortowski via groups.io <rgortowski=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
9



Zephyr No 47 shows S-1A 2815 on 8/4/51 and R-5A 2151 on 2/9/52, so we know it's sometime after that.  Remember all steam engines had to operate backwards to Mt Morris from Oregon, as they took the wye out in Oregon, and there was no way to turn the engines - another reason to dieselize early.  With Geeps and SD's coming in the early fifties, I would think there would start to be enough motive poser to retire the steamers. I'm happy that in 1950 R-5A 2151 was operating on this branch, as that is what I'll be using to switch Kable and the rest of Mt Morris.

Rich G

-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Phillipp via groups.io <qutlx1=aol.com@groups.io>
To: CBQ@groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 22, 2022 7:58 pm
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Last Steam Locomotive in Mt. Morris?

Bryan,

I suggest this could possibly be researched utilizing the following steps. Using Aurora Div. ETTs find what was the last year water and coal were available at Oregon ? Then using locomotive assignment sheets what steam locos of weight lite enough to operate on the  Mt Morris branch were assigned to the area (Cicero,Aurora,etc). That’s the subset of locos to search. Finally photos could be used to narrow the subset population further.

Keep in mind steam locos were routinely operated lite from a servicing point,I.e. Eola Rdhse. To jobs across the division to cycle them for FRA inspections.

I would suggest that points like Oregon,Sterling and others would be some of the earliest to be assigned diesel power in order to reduce the cost of coal and water facilities.

Leo

On Jun 22, 2022, at 6:55 PM, Fred Hilgenberg <hilgy1954@comcast.net> wrote:

There's a little info that may help from a discussion on the O Gauge Railroad Forum Nov. 2014

Question for Hot Water CB&Q Steam operations late 50s thru late 60s

For several years in the 1960s, the CB&Q ran their own steam program with 4-8-4 #5632 and 2-8-2 #4960.  A change in management quickly ended that adventure.

 

Just wanted to comment on those two engines that were mentioned above.  The #5632 was cut up in the early 1980's 

The #4960 Mikado avoided the scrap line and was eventually purchased by the Grand Canyon Railroad

 

What really muddies the water, so to speak, with the CB&Q "excursions" was, many a trip was made with #4960, and probably even #5632, in mixed freight service as part of an excursion. The 4960 made a lot of mixed freight excursions, even into the early/mid 1960s, with a coach or two on it's freight out of Chicago, and then did pick-ups and set-outs on the branch down to Ottawa, IL (as best as I can remember), all the while the photographers were allowed off to watch the work. When completed, they put their train "back together", with the passenger car/cars most likely on the headend then, and returned to Chicago.

 

So, even though the CB&Q ended all "regally scheduled, revenue" steam operations in the mid 1950s, or so, those "mixed freight/passenger" excursions into the 1960s were indeed "revenue" but NOT "regularly scheduled" with steam.

http://www.railpictures.net/sh...7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C%7C

The freight pictures cited above were probably from the RR Club of Chicago's way freight fan trips, that went up to Oregon, IL, and with 2-8-2 4960 on the branch to Mt. Morris and Cable Printing. They actually did a bit of pick up/setout business on these trips. Believe 4-8-4 5632 was too heavy to go up to Mt. Morris. I had the good fortune to ride the 1960 version of the trip with the 4960.

 

#4960 was used in the Spring of 1965 at Savanna, IL when the Mississippi flooded the Burlington's trackage, shuttling both passenger and freight trains through the flood waters.

As for the timing, this little blurb would suggest the steam program was gone sometime in 1965.

Locomotive Fandom article on CB&Q 5632
https://locomotive.fandom.com/wiki/CB%26Q_No._5632
In 1965, Murphy retired as president of the CB&Q and his successor, Louis W. Menk, discontinued the steam program and ordered the overhaul of No. 5632 to be cancelled. Chicago steam preservationist Richard Jensen purchased No. 5632 in September 1965 and had it moved to the Chicago & Western Indiana Railroad's 47th Street roundhouse in Chicago where he stored his equipment, including CB&Q 2-8-2 Mikado type No. 4963 and Grand Trunk Western 4-6-2 Pacific type No. 5629.

--
Grateful Fred
Sugar Ridge Tower MP40 CC&P

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