Tom,
What I described was my experiences in the 70s under BN. However almost everyone on the crews were Q men and they had the pattern down pat so they knew from years of experience what to do.
Once you stalled on Burke the DS was called and informed and asked how to proceed. After a moment or two the crew would be advised to double or hang tight and so and so would come up behind you and give you a shove. I've been involved in all the scenarios of doubling, being pushed, doing the pushing,etc. There are others on this list who have far more experience with it than me. Sometimes if the train coming up to do the pushing was light enough or had plenty of power the crew could cut off their train on the side of Burke, shove the first guy over and come back and do just fine getting over the hill. Other times we would simply hang onto the train and simply couple up and push the first guy why also dragging our own train.
My memory is that if you were still making forward movement at the road overpass on the curve in the cut at the top of Burke you were going to make the hill. Usually stalled west of it.
I do recall Condrs. Telling me that it was not unheard of in the past for the Savanna switch engine to tie on and shove to the yard board. But that's about the time the real grind began.
From reading the union files I can advise that in steam days doubles were made from time to time at places like Hazelhurst, Stratford/Oregon,Lee,etc. I recall doubling Oregon once.
While in theory the horsepower to tonnage ratings under steam or diesel were pretty accurate for the various lines/hills once it rained,snowed,hard wind blew, etc you could throw the book away. Or the engine had clogged sanders,etc,etc.
As to the around the horn trips these were not limited to just the ore trains under the Q. And they would be made mostly eastbound but also westbound. An extra North with 100 or more mty. Box cars going back for grain and lumber would be a regular "around the horn" trip westbound. Eastbound any heavy extra that was likely to crawl at less than walking speed over all the previously mentioned hills would be sent eastbound around the horn. Where it would be out of the way until it finally appeared at Mendota.
Leo
OK Leo, now you have me salivating! Are you saying that in the late 1960's there was some helper service shoving some trains eastbound out of Sananna?!?!? If so, does anyone have any photos or actual examples? I am most interested in what power might have been used. Would the Q just put a road power consist on the back end and shove to wherever, then come back, or what? This would make really great operations on my late 1960's era layout out of Savanna yard!!!
BTW, I know that heavy trains, such as the GN ore trains from Mpls-StP to Chicago went around the horn so as not to gum up the C&I, but this is the first I recall hearing of helper use east of Savanna.
Tom Mack Cincinnati, OH ---In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, <qutlx1@...> wrote : Burke eastbound out of Savanna was always a challenge even in BN DAYS. It was some what routine to d
ouble or get shoved over. Most often it was a long slow grinding climb. In steam days the answer was to run a double header all the way from Savanna to Cicero. Someday I'll write an article on what the union files revealed. The Denrock- Mendota branch was a place to dump a heavy eastbound train so as not to gum up the C&I. Lots of claims for doubling Ohio and Walnut. But don't take any initiative and make one long single double over both in one move. If you did it was turned down as it was preferred to do two penalty 25 mile doubles as compared to the time saving, and better paying single 100 mile double.
Same applied to So Ottawa hill west or southbound. Leo
Sent from my iPhone
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Posted by: qutlx1@aol.com
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