Thanks, Hol, for asking Bill. And thanks to Bill for the answer. That clarifies a lot of things.
Indeed there is a “DUH” in Bill’s response that for some reason I tend to forget; namely, the train of the Gods and the train of Goddesses already had steam generators in the power car. Of course (this my DUH) they were fitted to be pulled by EA’s!
Doug Hosler
On 3/19/17, 3:11 PM, "Hol Wagner holpennywagner@msn.com [CBQ]" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Denny and Group:
I asked Bill Schultz, the acknowledged authority on all things Zephyr-related, if he would care to answer your initial question, and below is his response, received yesterday.
Hol
Sorry for the delay in response; been away for a week and arrived home last night. I'll take a stab at it.
Argo (906) and Olympus (907) were acquired for the Nebraska Zephyr; neither had a boiler (as the articulated auxiliary power-baggage-lounge cars Apollo [Train of the Gods] and Venus [Train of the Goddesses] each were equipped with a boiler for train heating) and neither was subsequently equipped with a steam generator throughout their CB&Q/BN careers. During 1951, the two cars migrated to the Denver Zephyr (following the arrival of "Havelock" baggage cars 990-999 between March and May). Which leaves one-of-a-kind Silver Treasure (908), which was delivered with a 2,250 lb./hr. (water evaporated per hour) Clarkson steam generator for assignment to the Silver Streak Zephyr to enable one of the four boiler-less shovel-nosed EAs (9904-9905-9906A-9907A) to power the train. Budd delivered all three cars during February 1948. To accommodate the steam generator's water and fuel tanks beneath the floor, the air brake reservoirs and associated piping were mounted in the ceiling. Photographs of the car show fuel and boiler water "fill-ups" located immediately beneath the car's nameplates, and an additional rectangular roof vent located near the BL corner (B-end; left-side), as described in Zephyr 2-98 (No. 38).
The assignment of an EA to the Silver Streak Zephyr appears to have lasted until late/end of October 1950 (thereafter replaced by an E5 or E7), but exactly when Silver Treasure's steam generator was removed is unknown. (An internal "roster" of passenger cars listing ownership, age, and condition of cars as of January 1, 1951 states "908 eqpd with steam boiler," but the notation is missing from a similar document dated January 1, 1953.) Though unknown for certain, it is believed that the air-brake equipment remained mounted in the ceiling following the removal of the boiler water and fuel tanks (to avoid the otherwise-unnecessary expenditure).
None of the nine stainless-steel baggage cars were built for the Twin Zephyrs. In addition to post-war cars 906-908, pre-war cars 900-902 (Silver Light, Chest, and Express) were built for general service; post-war cars 903-905 (Silver Bear, Buffalo, and Coyote) were built for the CZ. As a sweeping generalization, the post-war Twins (variously, Nos. 21, 22, and 24) began carrying a stainless-steel baggage car following the September 30, 1960 seasonal consolidation of the westbound Afternoon Zephyr and Empire Builder and at one point Argo, Olympus, Silver Light, Express, and Treasure were assigned to a Chicago-Minneapolis-Chicago-Denver-Chicago pool on Twins 21 and 24 and the DZ, but the specifics of each are too lengthy to include here. Rio Grande sold Silver Antelope to the Algoma Central in 1974."
For those that have them, Zephyrs 1-90 (No. 22), 2-98 (No. 38), 1-99 (No. 39), contain material about Silver Treasure (including some inaccuracies) together with several photographs, all of which is self-explanatory.
As to Shoreham Shops' models, they imported one car representing Nos. 906-908, with the air-brake equipment located beneath the car, single rectangular roof vent, and absence of boiler water/fuel fill-ups. The only difference between this model and the CZ baggage car is the latter's end-of-car plates bearing the initials of the owner."
Hope this helps. Appreciate your acknowledging the source of the info.
Bill--
From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of danspachmd@gmail.com [CBQ] <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 2:50 PM
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Burlington Budd boiler equipped baggage cars.
I do not see my most recent response/post (possibly lost) so please excuse this repeat.
The 1973 photo of SILVER TREASURE is extremely helpful. Thank you!
I have all the back issues of RMC to 1934, so will have to start looking for the article(s) referred to (not easy).
None of the limited photos of ARGO or OLYMPUS available to me show the external evidence of of boilers that limited photos of SILVER TREASURE have otherwise shown, e.g. long fuel/water tanks hanging below the side skirting, and an exhaust stack.
To make things even more muddy, RPC's CB&Q Passenger Car Diagram book shows, and RPC's Budd Streamliner CARS confirms Vol 2 confirms that neither ARGO nor OLYMPUS were apparently delivered with boilers nor space for same, the space occupied with a toilet and fish racks. At the same time the diagram for SILVER TREASURE and notation on the same order (Item #2189, Lot 9601-016) shows that this third car had cleared space for the boiler, which by all accounts so far was apparently installed by the railroad, not Budd.
Perhaps some clarity is offered by Hol Wagner in Bulletin #13 when he states specifically that SILVER TREASURE was ordered specifically to provide steam generation boiler service for the shovel nose EA power assigned for the SILVER STREAK ZEPHYR 1950-52.
To make things even more interesting, the three baggage cars of current interest, ARGO, OLYMPUS, and SILVER TREASURE were ordered and delivered respectively several months before the larger order of identical baggage cars was given to Budd for the CZ. So the CZ cars were the add-ons, NOT the other way around.
So, of the total of nine baggage cars (6 CBQ, 2WP, 1 WP):
ONE (SILVER TREASURE ) was delivered specifically for assigned boiler service (SSZ), and photo documentation shows that it actually had such capability.
TWO (ARGO and OLYMPUS) were reputed to have such capability for some period, but were not delivered as such, coupled to scant or even absent photo evidence
ONE (SILVER ANTELOPE-(CZ/DRGW) is almost completely modeled by Shoreham Shops with copious boiler detailing.
ONE (SILVER BEAVER-CZ/WP) is listed as containing boiler at it time of sale to Amtrak in 1971.
Again, I would guess that all respective boiler conversions were done by the railroads, CBQ for sure, and DRGW and WP probably; but only one single car was delivered ex factory ready for such install (In the last days of the CZ, WP had problems with steam generating capability availability, and they purchased and used at least one former GN steam generator car. That they might have also placed a boiler into a baggage car already would seem a reasonable supposition Ditto for the DRGW).
Randall was right in his CBQ diagram book (copying original material), seems to right in his compendium of all BUDD production, but seems quite incorrect in his red book on CB&Q Budd cars specifically.
This is certainly not an earth-shaking subject, but....it sure can be interesting!
Denny
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento
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Posted by: Douglas Hosler <dehosler@frontier.com>
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