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There was a fireman out of Herrin Junction. He was a nice, pleasant old guy but he had a bottle problem. For him, rule G was kind of an advisory thing. He would be set out for a while every so often. Each time he came back, they moved his seniority date. He hired out during WWII but the last time I saw his name on the roster, he had a 1957 date. He never was set up as an engineer and retired about the time of the BN merger. From: "Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com" <Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com> To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [CBQ] Fire Insurance Exactly right John...I think you could get by with a couple..maybe more of G's, but there did seem to be a limit on "managerial discretion"...There was one guy on the Wymore Division who had more than could be counted...He was still working after many of these....I did see a few years go he was arrested for vagrancy here in Lincoln, so I guess there was indeed a limit...Here's the "kicker"....Vince was an attorney...he did, indeed, have a law degree... He lived in a "tobacco road" house with several kids...He dressed in an old pair of overalls with the buttons replaced by red train order string... He wore an derelict cap such as truck and bus drivers used to wear. He looked like something off of WEst Madison St. in Chicago. This is not made up...I worked with him. In the mid-late 1950's.
We moved back to Lincoln in 1979 and I sold real estate for a couple of years. After closing a transaction I got to visiting with the attorney representing the buyer..I told him about my railroad days...He said did you ever know...Vince....I said yes indeed I did and we had some laughs about his antics.
The attorney told me that he and Vince were in the same class in law school and Vince was always coming to him to represent him when he got arrested for one of his "benders"...
The attorney told me..."The last time was just a couple of years ago Vince came in and wanted me to represent him..Of course he never had any money. I said OK Vince..but this is the last time...but you have to agree to keep your mouth shut in the court room and let me do all the talking...Vince agreed.
The attorney told me that, of course Vince didn't do as agreed and shouted out in the courtroom...The judge didn't take kindly to this and put him away for awhile. The attorney told me that was the last straw with Vince and he never represented him again.
Then, as always, there were those guys who got away with the bottle problem and were looked after by their co workers and seemed to survive...I think all of the old heads on here will have similar recollections.
Pete
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From: John D. Mitchell, Jr. <cbqrr47@yahoo.com> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2012 7:42 pm Subject: Re: [CBQ] Fire Insurance When they put you back to work, the letter read "as a matter of managerial discretion". It didn't say, "All is forgiven". I don't believe any other industry had this kind of insurance or needed it! In case of a derailment, there was a lot of finger pointing. The mechanical department said that the operating department was at fault. The operating department said the switch was out of adjustment. The track people said it was a sharp flange and around and around it went.
From: "Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com" <Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com>
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [CBQ] Fire Insurance Leo et al
The complete wording of the "invitation" was..."to develop the facts, discover the cause, and determine your responsibility, if any, in connection with...............".
I have sat on all three "sides of the table" at those "parties...ie..as a "participant"... a "witness" and an "interrogator".
I even had to testify as a witness in a rule G case on the RI when I was still a Trainee...We weren't supposed to be used for those purposes, but the trainmaster I was assigned to called me late at night at my room in the TEXAS Hotel in Ft. Worth in summer 1960...and just said..."Get dressed and get downstairs I'll pick you up in 15 minutes.. We went to the depot to confront the old conductor who was to take No. 18 out that night. He had had two many beers when he "got up hot" (his story) from his afternoon nap. I don't recall the outcome..The usual was to fire the victim for one year...then put him back to work on the first offense....That's probably what happened to that guy.
During my brief summer intervals as a trainman in the 1950's I never had the "job insurance"...I did get to attend a couple of parties, but never received any discipline. One in 1957 involved an improper interpretation of Train Orders and the other the failure of our rear brakeman to line a swich resulting our train shoving a setout through said switch and then derailing our engine and several cars when we made the reverse movement.
Pete
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From: qutlx1 <qutlx1@aol.com> To: cbq <cbq@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Mon, Aug 20, 2012 6:17 pm Subject: [CBQ] Fire Insurance Let me try and shed some insider details. We never called it fire insurance, it was job insurance. You could get it through BRCF or the UTU.
What did it insure ? Working on any RR,not just the Q,was pretty much like working in a military organisation except there were no guns. There were mutliple rule books, the Consolidate Code,Signals & Indications rules,Safety Rules,Air Brake and Train Handling rules,rules pertaining to current timetable and special instructions and current Supt and trainmasters bulletins. If you screwed up and put something on the ground one of these rules would apply. How did I just come up with that long list.........Doug Hartman just emailed a couple days ago the Supts letter to him,myself and a couple dozens others that we were to prepare ourselves for the exam to Condr promotion in 1976.
If you had any kind of a derailment,accident,incident,etc you would receive a letter asking you to attend an investigation to "determine your responsibility......................." concerning the incident. The end result,if found guilty of one of the 700 plus rules was time off. The job insurance replace a portion of your wages while you sat home for the prescribed time off before returning to work.
Was there any other industry with this type of penalty system ?
Leo Phillipp
Former Brakeman,Condr,and local Greiver........yes I have been to a few investigations.
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