BRHSLIST
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [CBQ] Re: K-Line question

To: <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: K-Line question
From: "Steven Holding" <s.holding@charter.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:27:05 -0500
Delivered-to: archives@nauer.org
Delivered-to: mailing list CBQ@yahoogroups.com
List-unsubscribe: <mailto:CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com>
Mailing-list: list CBQ@yahoogroups.com; contact CBQ-owner@yahoogroups.com
References: <ce6pku+q9iu@eGroups.com>
Reply-to: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
You could always run the GM&O as a detour train 
sjh
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cbq_k_line" <cbq_k_line@yahoo.com>
To: <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 6:48 PM
Subject: [CBQ] Re: K-Line question


> Shoot, I was wanting to have a layout with both GM&O and CB&Q, with 
> the CB&Q having Zephyr service on whatever line that would go thru a 
> town served by both the CB&Q and GM&O. I guess I'll have to do some 
> proto-lancing...
> 
> 
> 
> --- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hirt <whirt@a...> wrote:
> > atsf3460@a... wrote:
> > > Good question!  It would seem to make sense that GM&O would use 
> the CB&Q from 
> > > Mexico, MO down to St. Louis since CB&Q ran from Mexico to 
> Kansas City, MO.  
> > > As far as I know this wasn't the case.  GM&O used their own line 
> from St. 
> > > Louis to Roodhouse and then west to get to Mexico, MO.
> > > 
> > > There is some thought possibly also that at one point the Santa 
> Fe may have 
> > > wanted to use these lines to get into St. Louis.  I think I've 
> read or heard 
> > > this before and if anybody else knows more about this I'd love 
> to hear it 
> > > (contact directly if you feel it's straying too far off topic).
> > > 
> > 
> > In 1940, when the GM&O was merged from the Gulf Mobile & Northern 
> and 
> > Mobile & Ohio, the Q held 30% of the GM&N stock. Ralph Budd was 
> the Q's 
> > representative on the GM&N board and he opposed the combination of 
> the 
> > GM&N and M&O. The M&O gave the GM&N an outlet to St Louis which 
> allowed 
> > them to bypass the Paducah connection the Q had just built 25 
> years 
> > before. Also at the same time, the Q was running joint passenger 
> service 
> > with the Alton from St Louis to Kansas City. Zephyr service was 
> provided 
> > by the Ozark State Zephyr (originally powered by 9908 Silver 
> Charger) 
> > and a heavyweight overnight train called the Night Hawk. Also the 
> Q on 
> > and off over the years had teamed up with the Alton to run freight 
> > service from St Louis to Kansas City.
> > 
> > Fast forward to 1946. The Alton had continued it's long streak of 
> losing 
> > money and the B&O, who had bought the Alton in 20's, allowed the 
> > railroad to file for reorganization as the B&O was starting to 
> have it's 
> > own problems. The Alton would provide an outlet for the GM&O to 
> Chicago, 
> > but the east-west line from Roodhouse to Kansas City did not fit 
> the 
> > projected GM&O traffic pattern. The Q had long realized that it's 
> route 
> > to Kansas City from Chicago needed improvement (in terms of route 
> > mileage). The Santa Fe had also long desired to reach St Louis. 
> Hence a 
> > deal was cut. The Q and Santa Fe would support GM&O's merger 
> > application. In return, the GM&O would sell the Alton's Missouri 
> line to 
> > the Q. The Q would share the purchased line with the Santa Fe 
> promising 
> > improvements and upgrades in service. In return, the Q would get 
> > trackage rights on the Santa Fe from Bucklin to Kansas City (what 
> BN and 
> > ATSF did once they merged) and shorten the Q's route from Chicago 
> to 
> > Kansas City.
> > 
> > The St Louis-based railroads howled as many were still in 
> bankruptcy 
> > reorganization from the 30's (I think the MoP stayed in 
> reorganization 
> > into the mid 50s due to it's complicated corporate and subsidiary 
> > structure). The last thing the St Louis-based railroads wanted 
> > (especially the Frisco and MoP) was the Santa Fe coming into their 
> > backyard in St Louis. In a close decision by the ICC, the ICC 
> approved 
> > the GM&O buying the Alton, but rejected the sale of the Missouri 
> line to 
> > the Q and joint Q/Santa Fe operation. With the ICC rejection, the 
> Q 
> > discontinued it's joint passenger operations with the Alton by 
> 1948. The 
> > Q negotiated an agreement with the GM&O to use their line from 
> Francis 
> > to Rock Creek Jct near Kansas City with CB&Q crews. This agreement 
> > continued until early into the BN era. This also resulted in the Q 
> > proceeding to build the 78 mile Kansas City shortcut which opened 
> in 1951.
> > 
> > Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/8ZCslB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CBQ/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    CBQ-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>