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[CBQ] Re: K-Line question

To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [CBQ] Re: K-Line question
From: "cbq_k_line" <cbq_k_line@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:48:46 -0000
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Shoot, I was wanting to have a layout with both GM&O and CB&Q, with 
the CB&Q having Zephyr service on whatever line that would go thru a 
town served by both the CB&Q and GM&O. I guess I'll have to do some 
proto-lancing...



--- In CBQ@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hirt <whirt@a...> wrote:
> atsf3460@a... wrote:
> > Good question!  It would seem to make sense that GM&O would use 
the CB&Q from 
> > Mexico, MO down to St. Louis since CB&Q ran from Mexico to 
Kansas City, MO.  
> > As far as I know this wasn't the case.  GM&O used their own line 
from St. 
> > Louis to Roodhouse and then west to get to Mexico, MO.
> > 
> > There is some thought possibly also that at one point the Santa 
Fe may have 
> > wanted to use these lines to get into St. Louis.  I think I've 
read or heard 
> > this before and if anybody else knows more about this I'd love 
to hear it 
> > (contact directly if you feel it's straying too far off topic).
> > 
> 
> In 1940, when the GM&O was merged from the Gulf Mobile & Northern 
and 
> Mobile & Ohio, the Q held 30% of the GM&N stock. Ralph Budd was 
the Q's 
> representative on the GM&N board and he opposed the combination of 
the 
> GM&N and M&O. The M&O gave the GM&N an outlet to St Louis which 
allowed 
> them to bypass the Paducah connection the Q had just built 25 
years 
> before. Also at the same time, the Q was running joint passenger 
service 
> with the Alton from St Louis to Kansas City. Zephyr service was 
provided 
> by the Ozark State Zephyr (originally powered by 9908 Silver 
Charger) 
> and a heavyweight overnight train called the Night Hawk. Also the 
Q on 
> and off over the years had teamed up with the Alton to run freight 
> service from St Louis to Kansas City.
> 
> Fast forward to 1946. The Alton had continued it's long streak of 
losing 
> money and the B&O, who had bought the Alton in 20's, allowed the 
> railroad to file for reorganization as the B&O was starting to 
have it's 
> own problems. The Alton would provide an outlet for the GM&O to 
Chicago, 
> but the east-west line from Roodhouse to Kansas City did not fit 
the 
> projected GM&O traffic pattern. The Q had long realized that it's 
route 
> to Kansas City from Chicago needed improvement (in terms of route 
> mileage). The Santa Fe had also long desired to reach St Louis. 
Hence a 
> deal was cut. The Q and Santa Fe would support GM&O's merger 
> application. In return, the GM&O would sell the Alton's Missouri 
line to 
> the Q. The Q would share the purchased line with the Santa Fe 
promising 
> improvements and upgrades in service. In return, the Q would get 
> trackage rights on the Santa Fe from Bucklin to Kansas City (what 
BN and 
> ATSF did once they merged) and shorten the Q's route from Chicago 
to 
> Kansas City.
> 
> The St Louis-based railroads howled as many were still in 
bankruptcy 
> reorganization from the 30's (I think the MoP stayed in 
reorganization 
> into the mid 50s due to it's complicated corporate and subsidiary 
> structure). The last thing the St Louis-based railroads wanted 
> (especially the Frisco and MoP) was the Santa Fe coming into their 
> backyard in St Louis. In a close decision by the ICC, the ICC 
approved 
> the GM&O buying the Alton, but rejected the sale of the Missouri 
line to 
> the Q and joint Q/Santa Fe operation. With the ICC rejection, the 
Q 
> discontinued it's joint passenger operations with the Alton by 
1948. The 
> Q negotiated an agreement with the GM&O to use their line from 
Francis 
> to Rock Creek Jct near Kansas City with CB&Q crews. This agreement 
> continued until early into the BN era. This also resulted in the Q 
> proceeding to build the 78 mile Kansas City shortcut which opened 
in 1951.
> 
> Bill



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