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I was quoting Schultz. The last time I tried to prove him wrong it didn't end well for me.
Bryan J. Howell Superior, WI
On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 10:48 AM, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net> wrote: There was a wreck of the 9905 at Rochelle and I am not sure which unit was involved in the second photo attached. While the RDCs were definitely ruled out because of the experiences with Shovelnoses; I doubt that the regular design would have been applicable to CB&Q commuter service because stock units did not have the capability to accelerate and brake to maintain the rigorous schedule. Dieselization of the commuter service did not happen until the advent of the E8 and E9 because the EA, E5 and E7 units could not be used on most runs because they did not have the ability to get up to speed quickly enough. I wonder if the FM Trainmasters would have been able to serve if the CB&Q didn’t have a bias against Fairbanks Morse. (Somebody in the BRHS has the particulars on a story about FM hiring away a Mechanical Department employee and causing a lasting rift with Beloit). I also heard that FM tried to sell Trainmasters to the Q even to the point a rendering of one on a dinky crossing the Des Plaines River bridge was prepared! Charlie Vlk From: CBQ@groups.io <CBQ@groups.io> On Behalf Of jpslhedgpeth via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 10:07 AM
To: CBQ@groups.io
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Shovelnose question I am very familiar with the Oct 1939 affair at Napier, MO which resulted from a brakeman whose name was Paden and was still working in the 50's although restricted to Branch Line service Linining a Main Line switch which he was not authorized to do. I was thinking also that the roadmaster..(Track) and whose name was Terhune ..not Road Foreman (locomotives and mechanical) was also killed. The conductor on No. 21 IPZ) was my all time favorite conductor Lester 'PINKY" Crouch. If any of you guys have my Video Memories DVD..may recall seeing..near the begining Train No. 27 making its station stop at Langdon, MO. The conductor you see standing by the "Trap" is "Pinky" Crouch. All this good information is provided courtesy of my "Trivia Filled" memory and is worth exactly what I'm charging for it. Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Howell via groups.io <tubaman21=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: CBQ@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 4, 2020 7:03 am
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Shovelnose question There were a few accidents with the shovelnose units and I believe this is discussed in BB #13. To expand on what Ken described with the PZ incident at Napier, MO, this is covered by Schultz in the E-5 Bulletin. (One correction, only the engineer was killed. The road foreman was seriously injured.) Schultz theorizes that there wasn't much of a chance of surviving a collision in the cab of the shovelnoses at anything greater than 20-25 mph. It was this wreck that directly altered the design of the E-5 as the preliminary designs retained the shovelnose as well. The fallout from this wreck was also the reason why the Q didn't acquire any Budd RDCs, which is also covered in the E-5 Bulletin. Ed,
I am not certain but I don’t believe they did have any posts.
As far as accidents I can think of two
In 1939 at Napier, MO. the northbound Pioneer. Zephyr doing 55mph collided with an O-1. It pushed the O-1 back 125 ft and collapsed the front 35ft of the engine
killing the engineer and road foreman. The fireman jumped and lived. The engine was sent to Budd and was rebuilt in a month.
The other one of the original Twin Z running in Texas colided with a gas truck and burned.
Ken Martin
> On Jun 3, 2020, at 8:08 PM, Ed Pavlovic <cbq168a@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Was reading the latest Bulletin that came in the mail today and noticed the photo of the Mark Twain Zephyr that struck the barge that was fouling the track.
>
> Made me wonder, I know I've looked in the cab of the Pioneer Zephyr at MSI and simply don't remember, but did they have any type of collision posts to give some protection to the engine crew? You look at the front end of a shovelnose and from the outside it doesn't look like it really is that much more substantial construction than a streetcar or interurban would have, and I've seen photos of those after a wreck.
>
> Was the Burlington lucky enough not to have had major accidents with the shovelnoses?
>
> Thanks to all of those involved in the production of this Burlington Bulletin, an excellent job!
>
> Ed Pavlovic
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