And looking at the locomotives pictured, the C&S looks like a Burlington loco and the other like a Santa Fe. TEB
The C&S switchers, which were in Denver where the C&S did the switching (it was the C&S's yard), were lettered C&S/AT&SF. The Santa Fe switchers, which were to the south where the Santa Fe did the switching (it was the Santa Fe's yard), were lettered AT&SF/C&S. In a nutshell, the owner was on top. Richard Townsend Lincoln City, OR -----Original Message----- From: LZadnichek@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> To: cbq < cbq@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2017 11:18 am Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: 1952 flooding [1 Attachment] February 1, 2017 John - The image might be misidentified as to location (it occasionally happens....). That being said, from your comments, the Santa Fe 0-8-0 might well have been photographed in Pueblo. Can anyone else in our Group tell anything from the minimal background in the image? Also, I wasn't aware of the "reversed lettering" for Denver and Pueblo that you describe. I checked some of the C&S images I have and found this undated one of C&S 608 at Denver,CO, with the lettered as you stated for Denver-based locomotives. I have both inserted and attached the image: <CS608DenverCOUndated-3.jpg> I wonder why the lettering was one way in Denver and another way in Pueblo? There must be an interesting story behind all this. Unless some one can convince me otherwise, I'll go ahead and change the location for the Santa Fe 0-8-0 from Denver to Pueblo. Thanks and best regards - Louis Louis Zadnichek II Fairhope, AL
Interesting that it's marked as being in Denver, I've always thought C&S did the switching for ATSF in Denver and ATSF did the switching for C&S in Pueblo. That was the reason C&S lettering was on top, and in Pueblo the ATSF was above the C&S. Not sure why a SF 0-6-0 would be in Denver ? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [CBQ] Re: 1952 flooding [1 Attachment]
February 1, 2017 Mark/Hol - Very much appreciate both your comments and recollections including the images of the PA's on the Q! All very interesting. I'm going to contribute an image of Santa Fe 0-8-0 type No. 854 lettered for the joint switching entity AT&SF C&S. Whereas I've got a number of images showing C&S 2-8-0's so lettered, this is the only one I've come across to date of a Santa Fe steam locomotive so lettered. I've both inserted and attached the image that's dated 1951 and identified as being at Denver. <ATT00001.jpg> I do not recall the joint switching entity being featured in the BRHS Bulletin, so maybe this thread can be the basis for such an article in the future. Same for the 1952 flooding and subsequent detouring. If both subjects have been covered previously, then forgive me as I'm developing a case of "old timers disease" since my memory is not quite as sharp as it once was. My Dad was C&S southern division trainmaster at Trinidad, CO, during 1951-52 and I still well remember watching Santa Fe steam on Raton Pass. Those wonderful memories still remain clear as can be.... Best Regards - Louis Louis Zadnichek II Fairhope, AL
Greetings everyone,
Otto Perry took the following still images of the ATSF on the Q;
OP-2194 7/15/51 Alco PA #68+ Derby CO 13 cars @ 55mph OP-2196 7/15/51 Alco PA #75+ 'The Chief' Derby CO 13 cars @ 70mph Otto took several stills on the Joint Line on the same day. And other days too, in July 1951.
If Mr Perry was there, it is possible that Mr Kindig was there too. Because of the 1951 emergency all diesels were pressed into service pulling the back log from CA east. Very unlikely that any steamers went east over the Q at that time. After 1953 steam was rare on the Joint Line.
I am uncertain as to who crewed the detoured diesels over the Q in 1951. My guess would be ATSF enginemen with a CB&Q crew acting as pilots. Part of the negotiations were not only between the ATSF and the CB&Q, but also between the local committees of the engineers, firemen and trainmen. No wonder it took time to organize the detours.
I am not aware of images of ATSF steamers on the Q. Having said that I can say that ATSF steamers sometimes ran over the C&S's Denver-Colorado Springs line.
Given the close relationship between the ATSF and the CB&Q, and given that emergencies did sometimes arise, it is possible that ATSF steamers did run over the Q.
In Superior NE, ATSF engines ran over CB&Q tracks for a short distance switching and turning t rains.
Incidentally, C&S engine men ran ATSF steamers, as called, over the Joint Line in the early years due to the unique Joint Operating Agreement and the labour agreements in force at the time. And ATSF crews C&S trains.
Thank you all for your excellent contributions to date. :-)
Oh, yes. Otto Perry's "Santa Fe" is on CD. Mostly diesels but many steamers; exceptional photography!
Mark
[Unable to display image] January 31, 2017 Mark and Hol - Did the Santa Fe (Uncle Pete to you real old timers....) run their own steam locomotives on detoured trains over the Q? Sometime in the past, I've seen images of Santa Fe diesel streamliners detouring, but I've never seen an image of a Santa Fe steam locomotive running over the Q east of Denver, or west from Chicago for that matter. Did Otto Perry or any others photograph any such scenes? Best Regards - Louis Louis Zadnichek II Fairhope, AL [Unable to display image]
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Posted by: Tom Burg <teb2771@earthlink.net>
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