I humbly submit the answer to my own question." How did the crews know it was OK to open up at the manual switch......". I talked to a Q/BN operator/dispatcher who hired out in the late 60s. It was his experienced opinion that the head end would have gone to the block phone and talked to either the nearby tower operator or the dispatcher and been governed by his instructions.
I then picked 1953, long before CTC was in place on the mainline. In the special instructions for ETT #36,dated 9/28/53 it states "Westward freight trains on westward track receiving a stop indication at the first signal east of Princeton depot will stop to clear east switch of westward siding and call operator for instructions." Note I copied this verbatim, there's not a punctuation mark to be found.
Also in the notes at the bottom of the time card pages about half of the sidings are noted " that trains moving on xxxx siding must move expecting to find cars on the siding". Geez, not only are we tucked into a siding,but we've got to back out !
And finally here's a true story related by the dispatcher mentioned above. It occurred after CTC was installed along this section of the mainline.
The Earlville turn ( a local Wayfreight) was leaving Leland and advised the dispatcher they had work off the eastward siding at Somonauk(the next station east of Leland). The dispatcher lined the Wayfreight into the siding,they did their work,went down to the east end of the siding,called the dispatcher and asked to open up and head east. He allowed them to do so. They left town headed for Sandwich, the next station east ward. The dispatcher got preoccupied with other matters,not necessarily related to his duties as a dispatcher. He was brought back to his duties when he received a call on the block phone from #12s fireman asking if it would be OK to open up at the east end of the eastward siding at Somonauk and proceed. Number 12 was a local passenger train with a stop at Earlville and next stop Aurora !
True story,
Leo Phillipp
Rule D-251 and related rules made a huge change as to how trains were operated on two main tracks equipped with block signals. Here is a late version. D-251: On portions of the railroad, and on designated tracks so specified in the timetable, trains will run with reference to other trains in the same direction by block signals whose indications will supersede the superiority of trains. Note that this version does not require clearing of first class trains or to make it possible of ever being "on the time" of a superior train because superiority of
trains is abolished . Earlier versions may have required clearing first class trains. Also it is important to take into account Rule D-254 which states: Except as affected by Rules D-251 and D-252, all Operating Rules remain in effect. This would still require, for example, yard engines operating on main tracks within yard limits to clear the time of first class trains.
John...I think you and are as "knowlegable old heads" are on the same page and as you said.."Don't make this more complicated than it is. and your statement that classification status was irrelevant....On double track under Rules 251 etc...You could just "keep on going" until you got on the time of a superior train in the same direction as you..When that happened you just headed in and waiting for that train to pass...After that train passed...subject to any train order restrictions you might have...you were "free to go{
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: 'John D. Mitchell, Jr.' cbqrr47@yahoo.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: CBQ < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 23, 2016 11:11 pm
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Mainline sidings ?
Don't make this harder than it was. The purpose of rules D-251 et. sec. was to simplify operations. Essentially, they allowed trains on two main tracks (i.e. double track), traveling in the same direction and with the current of traffic, to proceed, on the authority of a clearance card by signal indication. When the block signal at the head block of the siding cleared, the train in the siding could proceed. When the switch was opened, there was protection from following trains. Where the D-251 and etc. rules were in effect, classification status and regular/extra train status were irrelevant. this is why the use of classification flags and lights was abolished and why freight trains were run as extras. And by the way, it b
ecame legal to "gig" passenger trains (first class trains)! For a while, you still had to clear first class trains but then it became "open season on passenger trains"!
Leo..I'll take a stab at your question.....I think the double track rules were like D251 etc. At least on the RI and I presume that it was the same on the Q. For example trains of the second class were required to clear trains of the first class. When an inferior train headed in to clear a superior train he would see that train by and then proceed to follow that train out. There was a "protection provision" in the rules that provided that when a train was leaving a siding that he was required to open the switch and wait something like 2-3 minutes before proceeding out of the siding. That time lapse would provide protection in the event that a train on the main track had passed the last signal to the rear that it would be by in that time period.
On the RI where all trains except first class were run as extras an extra train would get a message from the DS eg Clear extra 1275 east at a list of towns and the time by which the inferior train was to be in the clear.
I don't think that the clearing of trains in the same direction on double track under rules 251 etc was done by train order...probably just by message or just clearing superior trains same as on single track.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: qutlx1@aol.com [CBQ] < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
To: < CBQ@yahoogroups.com> < CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 23, 2016 7:48 pm
Subject: [CBQ] Mainline sidings ?
I have an operations question that's come to mind recently and all the men I once worked with who could answer are now gone.
All along the Q mainline from Chicago to Denver were long sidings used for trains to get in the clear. The ones I'm familiar with and aware of from first hand use or historical research were at many points on the Aurora division. For example Bristol,Plano, Somonauk,Leland, Earlville and Mendota just to name a few.
At these points after the tower operator had lined you into the siding,at the other end was a hand throw switch. How did you know when it was OK to come out of the siding ? Generally these moves would be with the "current of traffic", that is there were eastward and westward sidings outside of the respective main. Usually a local or a "dead freight " would be routed into the siding
By the tower to hold to allow faster trains to pass.
Did the brakeman just walk to the phone and ask ? Seems a little out of character back in the day of train order right overs,meets,etc. In my time of mostly CTC operation one had signals to look at and radio/phone communication. But pre CTC,pre radio,etc if a train was routed into a siding at an interlocking plant; how were they sure it was ok to "open up" and proceed. Seems to me if it was just verbal on the phone it was open to error. Or did the Condr. Have to walk up/ back to copy or get an order ? Or was it handed to them as they passed the tower heading into the siding ?
Yes I know,small minds ask small questions. Buy its this day to day detail that makes it interesting. Just think how it makes the layout slow down and be more realistic !
Leo
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Posted by: qutlx1@aol.com
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