Charlie, Thanks for your thoughtful commentary. I've used the PRR online newsletter to access a good multi-part article on FGE/WFE/BRE reefers, so there is some Burlington related material in other societies online newsletters, and it's free. Since I'm a prototype modeler, I expect the manufacturers to be prototypically correct with their releases. Because I have a narrow period on interest (September 1953), I want the freight car classes and paint schemes that were running then. The Kato Phase 1 NW-2 is the only one available in HO, and factory paint had the modern BURLINGTON script on the hood instead of Way of the Zephyrs and Everywhere West. That disqualified the model for me unless I wanted to take the time to strip the paint, repaint, and decal. At seventy-one, I'd rather spend my remaining time building the layout. There is no SW that I'm aware of, no SW-1 in the blackbird paint scheme except the old Walthers Mainline issue, no F-2, and the GP-7s and SD-7s being issued are generic models for several roads without road specific details, which means they lack the distinctive Burlington headlights, Mars lights and other Q-specific details. These can be retrofitted, but it's not easy to do, and it takes a lot of time and additional expense (been there, done that). Most E unit releases have been with red nose stripes (post-1959), since only a few of us old guys are interested in steam and first generation diesel. I acquired some early releases of E units with black nose strips from 2006 at shows or estate sales, and I ordered two of the BLI E-8s to finally get a passenger power pool. There is no P-6 or anything close. There is no K-4, though NKP issued a K-2 in brass many years ago. There is no prototypical Q steam in plastic, unless you count the USRA designs that the Q purchased. If your want single sheathed boxcars (XM17/18/19/21/23/30/31) or auto boxcars (XA7/8/9/11/14), GS1/2/7/8 gondolas, or the BREX refers without cast on safety appliances, you have to build resin kits (been there, done that). Yes, there is a lot of rolling stock loosely based upon the Q and similar prototypes, but very little of it is accurate for the Q. The blackbird is becoming extinct, with the red bird continues to survive, and the green pumpkin is thriving. I'll stand my assertion that there is very little prototypically accurate Q equipment in RTR format that predates 1959. Younger modelers are modeling the present because that's what they see and can identify with. Where does that leave us in ten years? Aren't we doing the same thing, modeling what we were familiar with back in the day. There is no CB&Q in the present. The BN has nothing of the nostalgic value of the CB&Q, and the BNSF is strictly in the present. Unless we can present ourselves in a way that attracts young members, the BRHS will die with us, and then the archives will be strictly for historians. Nelson Moyer From: CBQ@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CBQ@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 12:02 PM To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [CBQ] Freebees Nelson and group- I do not know what the answer is for the Burlington Route Historical Society. There are many railroad historical societies and they are all over the map as far as level of activity, success in attracting and maintaining membership, and impact on preserving and promoting interest in the history of their lines. I do know that several railroad historical societies .. PRR, B&O, C&NW .. support significant online free access high-quality digital modeling magazines. The N&W group has usable resolution quality images of a huge amount of the photos and drawings in their archives. I think some degree of promotional free material is beneficial to these groups. Because of the interchange inherent in the North American rail network modelers cannot only model their favorite railroad, even if they concentrate on building accurate models only for "their" road they need some degree of knowledge about other roads. Exposure to the Burlington through free material will raise the general level of awareness of the modeling public (and as someone involved in the Model Railroad Industry) I would assess the balance of Tyco Trainseters to Prototype Modeler much more to the modeling end..even if not all scratchbuild, most prefer to buy accurate models and try to build a roster that is reasonable for their modeling interests. I would disagree with Nelson about the BRHS archives being for historians and not modelers. What the ratio of "Historians" to "Railfans/Modelers" is in the society is an unknown. Also, we don't have any experience with "the archives" so don't know what access will be, what the collection has, what the access experience will be like or how much it will cost. Clearly, the Society cannot fund out-of-pocket access expenses such as drawing reproduction and mailing and will have to somehow fund any expenses related to individual requests incurred beyond approved budget expenditures approved by the board and membership (normal funding of the archives by the society). IMHO in no case should volunteers be compensated for their time or usual out-of-pocket expenses such as travel, lodging, meals, etc., so the time spent in running the archives should not be factored into the cost of access and reproduction as it is in institutions with paid employees. Having an archives is a necessary function of the society in preserving the history of the Burlington Route. >From my industry experience I do know that groups that establish an archives run by a tight knit group of insiders that consider themselves Guards of the Keep and limit access to Those Who are Worthy discourage interest in their railroad. Manufacturers have choices in their product offerings and practically often have to take the path of least resistance in creating new models. I have had direct experience with some railroad historical societies that just make it too difficult and lengthy of a process to get information they hold..and therefore researchers will move on to other prototypes that the material is more readily available for. Witness the wide range of PRR prototypes...I know firsthand that the support the PRRHTS Modeling Committee and Archives gives to manufacturers is a huge factor in the availability of PRR equipment. I would also disagree about the lack of CB&Q pre-1959 paint jobs, having caused the introduction of a number of them on any suitable client model that I've worked on (Kato, Broadway Limited) and many have been made for manufacturers that I don't work with. While there are many CB&Q prototypes yet to be done I would be hard pressed to think of any existing tooling that has not been offered in both pre- and post- 1959 CB&Q paint (the the possible exception of C&S and FW&D sublettered equipment. and InterMountain just announced F7s for C&S in both HO and N). I do suspect that the success of a Railroad Historical Society is directly tied to the participation in volunteer positions of people who have the skills and experience in areas that support a full range of activities that promote the dissemination and preservation of the history of their road. There are opportunities for members to step up to the plate to help in existing areas where the same few individuals have been shouldering the load for years and in new areas where the society has had very little activity. For example, the previously mentioned digital modeling magazines that the PRR, B&O, and C&NW have are due to a group of maybe five or so members who have the interest, skills, and volunteer to do the work and turn out a professional-quality product. AFAIK, other than the website, no society funds or approvals are necessary for their efforts and they tremendously impact the interest in their railroads and societies. Nothing would prevent members from seeking out others in their area and starting informal BRHS chapters to promote the society and interest in the Burlington. We need to jack up the level of active participation in the BRHS and that will lead to success. Charlie Vlk I take exception to the philosophy that something of value assumes more value if it is purchased, rather than given away. The corporate world understands that free samples up front hook consumers for the long term. Costco has made a new art form out of giving away free samples, and nobody will argue their success. Excluding the Sign data sheets as Gene suggests, there are 12 data sheets for a total of 56 pages remaining. That's hardly giving away the store, and it's probably not enough material to warrant producing a CD. Post those data sheets on the web page for free download in high resolution, and you just may attract some new members, which is guaranteed to enhance BRHS revenue far more that any modest sale of data sheet CDs. The BRHS archives are for historians, not modelers. Most modelers aren't strict prototype modelers, and few modelers scratchbuild structures, much less freight cars. Fewer modelers are choosing to model the CB&Q as evidenced by the paucity of models offered in pre-1959 paint schemes; the marketplace follows the demand. The future of BRHS depends upon attracting new members, so what's wrong with providing some value up front via the web site? I recently joined the La Masa Model Railroad Club in San Diego, since I spend substantial time out there visiting my grandchildren. They model the Southern Pacific, Union Pacific, and Santa Fe from Bakersfield to Mohave including Tehachapi Loop. I've used the ATSF Historical Society web site as a source of information for deciding on motive power purchases to run on the club layout in the San Diego Model Railroad Museum. The web site provides a lot of free information, but it also steers users to society publications and society membership. Some material is available to members only, but it's free to members. Unless BRHS joins the 21st century, I just may have to 'Go Santa Fe All the Way". Nelson Moyer
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