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As a mechanical engineer, I found that very interesting Bob! My first thoughts went to how would I fixthe problem. Pullman was correct to insist on worn wheels, for that would probably be the norm. Thanks for sharing. Thanks! Jeff Jeff Worones Seattle WA From: Bob Webber
<rgz17@comcast.net> To: "CBQ@yahoogroups.com" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 1:16 PM Subject: [CBQ] CB&Q 1956 DZ - ride & noise control issues While perusing a Budd test report on the subject matter, I found a
few things interesting. First, CB&Q knew that the ride & noise from the CZ's trucks were not the best, but ordered the same truck on the 1956 DZ to maintain consistency. And then proceeded to complain about the noise and ride to Budd (and Pullman). Pullman maintained the sleepers (including the dome-obs sleepers and the dome-lounge-dorm cars). There is a manual from Pullman that addresses these cars and the maintenance of the cars. In the process of attempting to address the complaints, Pullman tried adding some additional sound proofing materials to the underbody, including around the waste chutes. Now...I rode many of the cars described, and I remember well (and with fondness) the noises coming from "the hopper" - and spent many a minute watching the tracks go by (and wasting lots of water in the process). Apparently, this fondness was not universally felt. Naturally, in the process, Pullman blamed Budd, Budd blamed the CB&Q and the CB&Q blamed everyone but themselves. The SILVER TERRAIN was used as a test car, behind trains #6 & 19 between Chicago & Burlington (or Galesburg). Speeds and decibel levels were recorded. Speeds in excess of 80 were common. Interestingly, Budd tried to convince Burlington that some of the issues would go away should they get the speed in the 90mph range. Also noted was a complaint by the Q on melamine panels bulging (due, according to the Budd report, on the railroad's insistence that the panels be connected to the car body with screws, rather than "float" - Burlington insisted they specified floating panels (that were screwed to the car - something lost in the translation, no doubt). Another complaint involved the "Siesta Sleepers" (Slumbercoaches). The railroad relayed complaints about odors. Porters said this was due to mops being used until they could be used no more, the type of person who used these accommodations, and the lack of care used by said persons of that type. No one can be as snobby as a good porter. The suggestions were universally ignored. On all sides. Budd wanted newly turned wheels for the test car, Pullman said, no we want to get the trucks figured out with worn wheels, Burlington said "do it Pullman's way and record it in your reports". Ideas regarding the various components of the trucks were seen as too expensive (at origin or to maintain) or inconsequential. The whole thing blew over, as complaints dwindled. Interestingly, the DZ went further before wheel maintenance than the CZ which went further than the Twin Cities Zephyrs. Wheel contour was found to be the leading culprit in noise & ride issues. Budd indicated that the sleepers rode better than the coaches, whether this was a design issue, or an artifact of Pullman's maintenance of the former is unknown. Budd took readings on the PRR General on the way home, and found the PRR's sleepers' noise were from 8-20 decibels less and the ride was noticeably better. Those were PRR cars, and had different trucks. A lo of the issue could be laid at the feet of the Burlington's insistence on the skirting. We know that some skirting was "notched" on pre-war Budds due to hanging brake cylinders. The fully skirted CZ exacerbated the clearance issue, and fairly well dictated the type of truck that could (and could not) be used. Budd's attempt to place another design under the 1956 DZ was met with resistance by the Q and an attempt to test the cars with the other design was declined. I rode the DZ & CZ dome coaches, and they did ride rough, especially on the WP when they were romping in the high desert in the middle of the night. But, they weren't much better in Nebraska. Of course, going 75+ on jointed rail might have had something to do with it. Try being in "roomette" 9 or 10 on a Superliner across Nebraska and (as indicated by a CB&Q employee) sleeping would be preventative. The whole issue with Superliner I & II trucks is a whole 'nother issue. Bob Webber __._,_.___
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