Back in the 1890s and early 1900s "flimsies" were not so flimsy. I have a number of C&S and predecessor company train orders (both 31s and 19s) that are on a heavier paper with a carbon paper backing. So there was no mess with inserting carbon paper between each order sheet and making sure the carbon paper was facing the right direction; it was automatic, as the order blanks were bound in pads so an operator had only to insert his sheet of tin after the required number of orders. I wonder why this method was abandoned in favor of tissue paper and sheet of carbon paper.
Hol
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com From: sholding@sbcglobal.net Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 05:51:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [CBQ] Newberry Archives
Making multiple copies was done for the slow, and look out orders. When I worked at Aurora Tower in '73 we copied an order for work on the Wood St. Bridge(in Aurora) and on second trick you had to have enough orders for all the morning dinkys the next morning so I would make on copy as the DS gave it out and another set when the operator at GB(Union Station) repeated it. Carl the operator at the time on second trick was very slow in repeating. Being at the opposite end of the subdivision I repeated last behind HY(Cicero) and OA(Eola) . Later in the evening I when nothing was happening I would then repeat my second set. I can not remember how many copies we made but we did use the sheet of tin between the bunches. Still have some of that carbon paper. After the rules dept oked the use of the Fax Machines we would send the orders direct to the train crews via the Fax as more operator jobs were being cut off. And as Track Warrant operation was started I was working the Ottumwa Desk and we were in the three year cycle where we dispatched the Wabash(N&W or NS?) between Albia and Des Moines and BN forced the track warrants on that district the first for that system to use that form of operations. Steve in SC
From: John Stell <stell_john@yahoo.com>
To: "CBQ@yahoogroups.com" <CBQ@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, June 27, 2012 11:40:37 PM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Newberry Archives
The thin paper also allowed the operator to make 9 copies of an order. Some guys could make 11 copies.
From: "Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com" <Jpslhedgpeth@aol.com>
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Newberry Archives
The original purpose of the " flimsy" was to enable the order to be read by the light of a lantern (oil burning) or lamp in a dark jouncing cab of a steam locomtive. or waycar The order could be held up in front of the light of the lantern, cab light or even the firebox. The thin tissue allowed the writing to come through and the writing to be read under those primitive conditions which you young railroaders and fans know nothing whatever of today.
The practice of using the thin tissue paper continued, as did many of the old practices well into the modern era, just because.."that's the way it's always been done".
In later years the orders,,,,expecially "slow orders" were done via fax and copying machine on regular paper.
John and Leo may want to chime in on this, but wanted to get the thread started.
Pete
-----Original Message----- From: dhartman <dhartman@mchsi.com> To: CBQ <CBQ@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 27, 2012 8:35 am Subject: Re: [CBQ] Newberry Archives
Speaking of old paper and operating crews, does anyone know why orders were on that flimsy tissue-like paper? They were difficult to sort through when you had a stack. Much better, I thought, when they switched to regular, heavier stock paper. Doug
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 06:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [CBQ] Newberry Archives
Operating paperwork is hard to come by as it was thrown away by train crews or round house workers in cleaning out locos and waycars. The file copies would have been in the depots and towers. I know one of my chiefs said often to help start the fire in the depot heating unit was done with the old paperwork. Train sheets were hung up by month after coming back to the DS office in a store room. I got into the one in Cicero and got a few sheets but the MASS of material was too great to save everything. Along with the sheets would have been books of daily and slow orders, lineups, and track and time. In the BC era(before computer) if you had a new ball point pen it might last 4 days there was that much writing. A lot of the engineering drawings in Galesburg were redone one summer by an intern and the old Q drawings thrown in the garbage. Again you had to be in the right place at the right time. Station maps in wall paper sizes. The society has reprinted a lot of sheets from my collection. Other stuff from my collection is used in my articles and has been used by others. Sharing material is one of the great aspects of this hobby I tried to add some train orders to the file section but the files are in Doc and so you can not add to the file and save it, You have to start a new file. Speaking of train orders would a train order clinic work for one of our meets?? Retired train dispatcher from train orders thru track warrents and been a picker all my life Steve in SC
From: Charlie Vlk <cvlk@comcast.net>
To: CBQ@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, June 26, 2012 11:32:20 PM
Subject: RE: [CBQ] Newberry Archives
Nelson-
The Newberry Archives has almost nothing in the way of engineering drawings and operating paperwork, at least in the original collection and the later PR department files. Perhaps the Perkins papers will uncover more such documents….
Charlie Vlk
Dave,
Thanks for the heads up on the blog. Please ask them to put some engineering drawings on the blog, not just correspondence. Personally, I’d like to see freight car drawings and railroad structure drawings besides depots e.g. tool houses, sand towers, coal pockets, ash pits, etc. Photos of these would also be very useful to modelers. Also, operating paperwork like employee timetables, clearance cards, Form 19 and Form 31 examples, dispatcher train sheets, rule books, etc.
Nelson Moyer
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