Financial arrangements for such things are often whacky and difficult
to trace. My guess is that Dodge bought them and leased them - but I
can't really say. I can only tell you what the original Pullman
records state.
At 02:01 PM 1/20/2008, MICHAEL PANNELL wrote:
>Bob,
> This is fascinating stuff, the mystery deepens then, in that the
> railroad companies didnt necessarily order the cars, does this mean
> that they were purchased by someone i.e. N Thayer and then leased
> to a Railroad?
> We will look for numbers when we start work on it. Another
> interesting point is that the only area of C&S dark green on the
> entire car appaers to be a patch above the door where the number
> 513 is clearly visible (see photos) the rest of the car underneath
> the layer of MOW red is layer upon layer of varnish, it appears
> never to have carried paint..............we wait to see if this is
> the case but its interesting nonetheless.
>
> Mike Pannell
> Cheyenne
>
>Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net> wrote:
> Restarting this....
>
>Hol's book does not mention for whom the car was built, but it
>mentions the previous owner. This is a crucial difference (and one
>that was likely understood by some in this discussion, but by no means all).
>
>No Pullman cars were ever built for the UPD&G. And here is where
>some history of the lines must be understood as well. To make a very
>long story short, the former GM of the UP, General G. M. Dodge had
>control of a lot of the lines that made up what was to become the
>UPD&G. This included what we might prefer to refer to as the
>FW&D. Pullman DID produce a variety of cars for the account of G.M.
>Dodge - not the railroad per se. The records are fairly rigid in this.
>
>The cars were called for in 1887 and built in 1888. There was no
>#57. That certainly does NOT mean that these aren't the cars, as the
>equipment likely were renumbered between the original build and their
>entry to the UPD&G roster. There *are* number in the range - 6,
>45-48 being 1st class cars, & 60 - 644 being 2nd class cars. UP also
>purchased some cars in 1888, but in 3 digit series. In 1887 the only
>order by UP (which was for 10 passenger cars) was cancelled.
>
>There *IS* another possibility, and one I haven't followed yet. One
>N. Thayer ordered 6 passenger cars in 1886 numbered 57 - 62. Someone
>more familiar with the history than I might recognize that name.
>
>The bottom line is that, in existing records, in 1887, no passenger
>cars were ordered for any unit in the UP system (from Pullman - that
>wasn't cancelled). There *is* another possibility, one that,
>unfortunately, we don't have all the records for. The Pullman shops
>in Denver were located within the UP shops area. The Pullman Shops
>in Denver constructed some D&RG cars. We do not have a full record
>of the cars built by Pullman Denver - the description of the shops
>typically indicates that it was for maintenance and
>rebuilding. Maintenance and rebuilding on a wooden car entails no
>more effort than building a new one - often times more. So the
>capability was there. The Pullman Denver shops moved to Richmond, CA later.
>
>Now, having said all that, there is a very easy way to discover the
>car's origin - if it is a Pullman. All of the window frames should
>be stamped with a Lot number, as well as door frame and other such
>items. It will likely be a 4 digit number in the 1200 area.
>
>At 11:12 AM 1/12/2008, Norm Metcalf wrote:
> >There seem to have been at least four of them, UPDG 57-60, 51'6", 58
> >capacity, Pullman 1887. Apparently 59 didn't make it to the CS. Hol's
> >book has the data on 57, 58 & 60.
> > Norm Metcalf, Boulder Colorado
> > > Kenneth Martin wrote:
> > >> Mike,
> > >>
> > >> According to my C&S folio book the only sister car was 514 which was
> > >> converted to M/W in 1923. I am busy today but will try to scan the
> > >> sheet tomorrow and send you a copy. I would like to see pics.
> > >>
> > >> Ken Martin
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> MICHAEL PANNELL wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Fantastic news thanks Norm, this is why these yahoo groups are so
> > >>> great. Well the news is that she is still in existence in Cheyenne
> > >>> and we will shortly be attempting to move her and start restoring
> > >>> the amazing complete interior and exterior.
> > >>> I have photos if anyone is interested.
> > >>> Is the book you mentioned years old or current ??
> > >>> mike pannell
> > >>>
>
>Bob Webber
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
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