Bryan, if you do go to see him, you can advise him that the original
drawings are available - which might help the sale. A nicely framed
side elevation would be a nice addition.
I also was in the DSP&PHS - haven't renewed for a while for some
reason, must do that soon.
At 05:06 PM 7/31/2007, angusmcadams@comcast.net wrote:
>Hello Bob,
>
>Thank you for the wealth of information you have provided. Way more
>than I ever expected! I have learned more about the Pullman
>numbering system in the past few days than I knew in the previous 40 years.
>
>It looks like another road trip to Lyons is in order when I can make
>time. Maybe with the info. you & others have provided I can find
>some numbers that will now make a little more sense.
>
>Let's hope the car ends up in good hands.
>
>Thank you again for your time & effort,
>Brian Adams
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net>
>The car could also have been from the earlier Lot 3311 Plan 2147-B
>(cars 538 to 541 on the C&S and 1-4 on the T&BV).
>
>The period is interesting to chase cars as the C&S, T&BV and FtW&DC
>all had cars that were built by Pullman and ordered by the C&S but
>assigned to any of the 3 railroads, in addition to cars for the
>railroads themselves.
>
>On any Pullman built car, the Lot is easy to ascertain, as the number
>is stamped into many of the parts on the car, including the window
>sashes, door frames, vestibule frames, etc. The number is between
>1/2" and 3/4" high and width proportionate. With many of the original
>frames intact on the Lyons car, it should be relatively easy to
>determine exactly which Lot it came from. Note that the cars the
>seller suggests (538, 539, 540, 542 or 547) come from 2 different
>Lots, and two different Plans.
>
>This brings up the issue of railroad diagrams or folios. Often
>times, cars that are similar are lumped into the same class and the
>same folio is used to portray them. And sometimes, that may not be
>accurate. In some cases, the folios lump multiple Lots of cars with
>the same Plans making it more difficult to find the correct Lot
>number for a given car (see the link on the railmerchants website
>below to the C&S mail-passenger combination car - these cars -
>328-331 were actually built in two lots, one in 1906, one in
>1907). It just makes things a bit frustrating when trying to
>research some of these things.
>
>The actual side elevations from the original Pullman specs are
>available for these cars, along with all of the other drawings and
>the specifications themselves. The specifications spell out the
>paint used, lettering and number/names used and the interior
>decorations. In some cases, the side elevation for the car does have
>some lettering information. I have not looked up either of these
>two Lots, and I don't know how the letterboard for the T&BV would
>have looked or if they were sublettered. The specs would also indicate that.
>
>At 09:46 AM 7/30/2007, Bob Webber wrote:
> >A C&S car:
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/Real-1906-Pullman-Passenger-Coach-Colorado-Sout
> hern_W0QQitemZ200133275317QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> >Though someone gave him wrong information. The original Lot is 3367
> >plan 2145-A No. 542 - 548 (though it might have been renumbered).
> >
> >BTW, a mail-passenger car in the same era was recently sold (though
> >in considerably better condition) :
> >http://www.railmerchants.net/cs/index.html
> >
> >
> >At 08:46 AM 7/26/2007, Brian Adams wrote:
> > >Hello Group,
> > >
> > >I joined a few day's ago seeking answers to a couple of questions I
> > >have. I appologize if this get's a little long..
> > >
> > >My name is Brian Adams. I am on the Board of the Denver, South Park &
> > >Pacific Historical Society in Colorado. A couple of weeks ago we were
> > >contacted about the availability of a "1906 Pullman Passenger car"
> > >and a 1950's era steel caboose sitting on Main St. in Lyons,
> > >Colorado. I was picked to take a look since I only live about 35
> > >miles away. I contacted the owner & made arrangements to meet the
> > >following day.
> > >
> > >I was given access to the interior of the Passenger Car by the
> > >present occupant who has been running his business out of the cars.
> > >(he is a Celtic Artist). I know very little about standard gauge
> > >passenger cars-Pullman built or otherwise so I will pass on what I
> > >noted & the limited information I received from the present occupant
> > >& owner.
> > >
> > >-The Colorado RR Museum had informed them that the Passenger Car had
> > > originally been used as a Diner and later a Visitors Center in
> > > Winter Park, CO. A sister car is also being used as a commercial
> > > structure in Nederland, CO.
> > >-Both cars are sitting on the ground on some type of foundation. All
> > > of the running gear on the passenger car has been removed. The owner
> > > said that the trucks & running gear had been setting in a
> > > residential front yard until a few weeks ago. He had attempted to
> > > sell them with no takers & finally ended up selling them for scrap!
> > > I could not confirm this.
> > >-The Passenger car is wood sheathed with closed vestibules. (appears
> > > to be approx. 60 ft. in length. The occupant said that several
> > > layers of various colored paint had been removed. The car had been
> > > Maintenance Orange when it was moved to this location. The
> > > vestibules have some kind of steel sheating attached with some type
> > > of round head nails. This sheathing is painted a Pullman Green.
> > > The letter board has the number 1906 on both ends with Burlington
> > > in the center. This lettering appears to have been added after
> > > stripping.
> > >-All glass has been replaced...lower side windows clear...upper side
> > > windows someone's idea of stained glass. Looks like the clerestory
> > > windows may be clear acrylic.
> > >-The interior is being used as an office/storage/residence. The
> > > car is attached at a 90 deg. angle to a hole cut in the side of the
> > > caboose to allow pass thru. I could find no
> > > original/seating/appliances, etc. The 2 side rooms on both ends of
> > > the car are still in place...one lavatory is in use with updated
> > > fixtures. The opposite end looks like it may have had a small
> > > cookstove at one time, just a guess.
> > >-The mahogany side wall paneling is in surprisingly good condition. I
> > > could not tell the condition of the floor since it was covered with
> > > rug's, bookcases, etc.
> > >
> > >The D.S.&P.H.S. was not interested in acquiring the car/cars since
> > >this car had little to do with the "South Park" other than possibly
> > >having the same parent company at one time.
> > >
> > >The restoration group headed by Jason Midyet in Boulder, CO had shown
> > >an interest. Unfortunately the owner is looking at this as an
> > >investment. He had them appraised by an Eastern Railroad Auction
> > >house. They said $65,000 for the Passenger Car & $9,500 for the
> > >Caboose. I told the owner I would pass on this information in case
> > >someone is interested. I told him I would also try to find some
> > >additional info. on them if I could.
> > >
> > >If there is any interest he said I could pass on his Name & Phone No.
> > >& could be contacted directly.
> > >
> > >Thanks for any help you can pass my way. Sorry about the length of
> > >this....The moderator will probably get bored about halfway thru &
> > >toss it in the trash bin!!
> > >
> > >Brian Adams
> > >Director
> > >Denver, South Park & Pacific Historical Society
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >Bob Webber
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>Bob Webber
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
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