Hello Bob,
Thank you for the wealth of information you have provided. Way more than I ever
expected! I have learned more about the Pullman numbering system in the past
few days than I knew in the previous 40 years.
It looks like another road trip to Lyons is in order when I can make time.
Maybe with the info. you & others have provided I can find some numbers that
will now make a little more sense.
Let's hope the car ends up in good hands.
Thank you again for your time & effort,
Brian Adams
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Bob Webber <rgz17@comcast.net>
The car could also have been from the earlier Lot 3311 Plan 2147-B
(cars 538 to 541 on the C&S and 1-4 on the T&BV).
The period is interesting to chase cars as the C&S, T&BV and FtW&DC
all had cars that were built by Pullman and ordered by the C&S but
assigned to any of the 3 railroads, in addition to cars for the
railroads themselves.
On any Pullman built car, the Lot is easy to ascertain, as the number
is stamped into many of the parts on the car, including the window
sashes, door frames, vestibule frames, etc. The number is between
1/2" and 3/4" high and width proportionate. With many of the original
frames intact on the Lyons car, it should be relatively easy to
determine exactly which Lot it came from. Note that the cars the
seller suggests (538, 539, 540, 542 or 547) come from 2 different
Lots, and two different Plans.
This brings up the issue of railroad diagrams or folios. Often
times, cars that are similar are lumped into the same class and the
same folio is used to portray them. And sometimes, that may not be
accurate. In some cases, the folios lump multiple Lots of cars with
the same Plans making it more difficult to find the correct Lot
number for a given car (see the link on the railmerchants website
below to the C&S mail-passenger combination car - these cars -
328-331 were actually built in two lots, one in 1906, one in
1907). It just makes things a bit frustrating when trying to
research some of these things.
The actual side elevations from the original Pullman specs are
available for these cars, along with all of the other drawings and
the specifications themselves. The specifications spell out the
paint used, lettering and number/names used and the interior
decorations. In some cases, the side elevation for the car does have
some lettering information. I have not looked up either of these
two Lots, and I don't know how the letterboard for the T&BV would
have looked or if they were sublettered. The specs would also indicate that.
At 09:46 AM 7/30/2007, Bob Webber wrote:
>A C&S car:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/Real-1906-Pullman-Passenger-Coach-Colorado-Southern_W0QQitemZ200133275317QQcmdZViewItem
>
>Though someone gave him wrong information. The original Lot is 3367
>plan 2145-A No. 542 - 548 (though it might have been renumbered).
>
>BTW, a mail-passenger car in the same era was recently sold (though
>in considerably better condition) :
>http://www.railmerchants.net/cs/index.html
>
>
>At 08:46 AM 7/26/2007, Brian Adams wrote:
> >Hello Group,
> >
> >I joined a few day's ago seeking answers to a couple of questions I
> >have. I appologize if this get's a little long..
> >
> >My name is Brian Adams. I am on the Board of the Denver, South Park &
> >Pacific Historical Society in Colorado. A couple of weeks ago we were
> >contacted about the availability of a "1906 Pullman Passenger car"
> >and a 1950's era steel caboose sitting on Main St. in Lyons,
> >Colorado. I was picked to take a look since I only live about 35
> >miles away. I contacted the owner & made arrangements to meet the
> >following day.
> >
> >I was given access to the interior of the Passenger Car by the
> >present occupant who has been running his business out of the cars.
> >(he is a Celtic Artist). I know very little about standard gauge
> >passenger cars-Pullman built or otherwise so I will pass on what I
> >noted & the limited information I received from the present occupant
> >& owner.
> >
> >-The Colorado RR Museum had informed them that the Passenger Car had
> > originally been used as a Diner and later a Visitors Center in
> > Winter Park, CO. A sister car is also being used as a commercial
> > structure in Nederland, CO.
> >-Both cars are sitting on the ground on some type of foundation. All
> > of the running gear on the passenger car has been removed. The owner
> > said that the trucks & running gear had been setting in a
> > residential front yard until a few weeks ago. He had attempted to
> > sell them with no takers & finally ended up selling them for scrap!
> > I could not confirm this.
> >-The Passenger car is wood sheathed with closed vestibules. (appears
> > to be approx. 60 ft. in length. The occupant said that several
> > layers of various colored paint had been removed. The car had been
> > Maintenance Orange when it was moved to this location. The
> > vestibules have some kind of steel sheating attached with some type
> > of round head nails. This sheathing is painted a Pullman Green.
> > The letter board has the number 1906 on both ends with Burlington
> > in the center. This lettering appears to have been added after
> > stripping.
> >-All glass has been replaced...lower side windows clear...upper side
> > windows someone's idea of stained glass. Looks like the clerestory
> > windows may be clear acrylic.
> >-The interior is being used as an office/storage/residence. The
> > car is attached at a 90 deg. angle to a hole cut in the side of the
> > caboose to allow pass thru. I could find no
> > original/seating/appliances, etc. The 2 side rooms on both ends of
> > the car are still in place...one lavatory is in use with updated
> > fixtures. The opposite end looks like it may have had a small
> > cookstove at one time, just a guess.
> >-The mahogany side wall paneling is in surprisingly good condition. I
> > could not tell the condition of the floor since it was covered with
> > rug's, bookcases, etc.
> >
> >The D.S.&P.H.S. was not interested in acquiring the car/cars since
> >this car had little to do with the "South Park" other than possibly
> >having the same parent company at one time.
> >
> >The restoration group headed by Jason Midyet in Boulder, CO had shown
> >an interest. Unfortunately the owner is looking at this as an
> >investment. He had them appraised by an Eastern Railroad Auction
> >house. They said $65,000 for the Passenger Car & $9,500 for the
> >Caboose. I told the owner I would pass on this information in case
> >someone is interested. I told him I would also try to find some
> >additional info. on them if I could.
> >
> >If there is any interest he said I could pass on his Name & Phone No.
> >& could be contacted directly.
> >
> >Thanks for any help you can pass my way. Sorry about the length of
> >this....The moderator will probably get bored about halfway thru &
> >toss it in the trash bin!!
> >
> >Brian Adams
> >Director
> >Denver, South Park & Pacific Historical Society
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>Bob Webber
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Bob Webber
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